SWA/FL Codeshare

[scoreboardII]

This is why SWAPA should have fought for equal pay ASAP but SC was too stupid to see this coming. If we all had equal pay, there would be unity among pilots against the cut. As it is now, even if with a pay cut in the next contract, a lot of AT guys will STILL get a raise when going over. I for one do not wish for a pay cut but if it happens, I will take my raise and enjoy the irony of the RSW guys complaining about their lower pay.

Phred

I can't fight your fight, nor would I ever entertain SWAPA fighting your fight, sorry. Higher pay to you is less pay to me. We are competitors until closing. Now that we are closed, it's a different story to be sure, but SWAPA asking SWA to raise AT rates is justified how? DFR's would fly from the rafters if SWAPA fights one inch of ALPA issues, sorry.


This disparity in pay evaporates in 24 months and 21 days, so, SWAPA needs not spend one shred of SWAPA goodwill to help AT raise their rates, they have their guys fighting for them.

 

[jonjuan]

Correct-a-mundo. Now you have two pay scales, and the lower one is more attractive to management. Who can you all thank for that? The answer: SC. He should have fought harder for parity. So, now you have a disgruntled 1/3 of your group, and they are paid less, which may be the future baseline. A pay raise always takes the sting out of a SLI. Even that "interesting" offer from GK would have been more palatable had the pay been equal, even with AT Capts leaving for the right seat. It was the better path not taken.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Dood, you're a psychotic freak. Do you not get the hundreds of others here calling you the same? It's time for you to leave the pattern and go back to your touchelmo.com.

 

[ron burgundy]

Thanks for chiming in General--I was waiting with breathless anticipation for your words of wisdom here.

Everyone will get paid the same when the airlines are actually merged, on 1 January 2015, about two years hence. And how management uses its various revenue streams as it changes part of its holdings' business model really has nothing to do with anything in this discussion. Southwest gets a significant revenue source from NFG freight; does that mean they should just give all that revenue straight to the rampers?

And the "other pilots" aren't really to blame here; management is. They made the decision, and neither side had much, if any, say in the matter. Unequivocally, GK is where the buck stops in this case.

Yeah, I can see where SWA/Airtran is JUST like USAir: BK wages on one side, furloughs on the other side, no contract, nothing to look forward to, and 8 years and counting with no end in sight. You're right, General--it's exactly the same. Thank God you're here to point that out.


Bubba

We will all be on the same payscale...yippi! It sounds good if you don't put any thought into it. However, a 12 yr FL Capt. (presently) will have the same payscale as a 12 yr. SWA F/O. 'cause that's what he will be. It's like winning the lottery!!!! Albeit, a winning scratch off ticket...the prize.. a free scratch off ticket. Investment paid off!! You get to start over and hope it works out THIS TIME!

 

[scoreboardII]

It's a two way street Ron.

 

[General Lee]

I can't fight your fight, nor would I ever entertain SWAPA fighting your fight, sorry. Higher pay to you is less pay to me. We are competitors until closing. Now that we are closed, it's a different story to be sure, but SWAPA asking SWA to raise AT rates is justified how? DFR's would fly from the rafters if SWAPA fights one inch of ALPA issues, sorry.


This disparity in pay evaporates in 24 months and 21 days, so, SWAPA needs not spend one shred of SWAPA goodwill to help AT raise their rates, they have their guys fighting for them.

OMG everyone should read this Krap. What a total jackhole. He is a "competitor" until closing.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Dood, you're a psychotic freak. Do you not get the hundreds of others here calling you the same? It's time for you to leave the pattern and go back to your touchelmo.com.

Is that you talking or "Uncle Sal" in the bottom bunk? Does he sing to you at night the song "18 and life you got it..."? You know he does. No go back and snuggle.

Btw, most of the people calling me names are Corndogs, who figured out I know the truth. They just don't want to hear it. Now get back to snuggling.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

Your non-movement cost AAI pilots 60-70% or more of their seniority from a relative position.

I have to say I hate hearing this "relative" example. Especially when almost 15% of the Southwest pilots were hired even before your predecessor started operations. It's funny that my relative seniority didn't move up 60-70%. And even though both were "non bankrupt, profitable carriers", I would argue that the similarities end there.

 

[redflyer65]

General,

Why do you even care? This has been voted on and done for sometime now.

The only reason is that you enjoy trying to stir the Southwest pot. It doesn't matter.....ITS OVER. Can you get that into your thick skull?

I'm glad others are seeing the Genital as the psychotic doosh he is. Thanks for all the private mail guys. I agree completely.

RF

 

[PCL_128]

Private mail talking about the General? Holy &*^%, get a life, people!

 

[redflyer65]

And even though both were "non bankrupt, profitable carriers", I would argue that the similarities end there.

Bingo. Two carriers that happened to fly a 737, the rest of the differences were pretty dramatic. You can't re-write history on how far apart these two companies were.

 

[ATLplt]

Bingo. Two carriers that happened to fly a 737, the rest of the differences were pretty dramatic. You can't re-write history on how far apart these two companies were.

Pretty dramatic indeed. One carrier was growing quickly their near international destinations, opening new domiciles, adding new cities, making sure they were technologically advanced to press into the future, finding ways to generate ancillary income (like every other airline) enabling a price undercut of the competition, and actually utilizing all the automation (increased safety) the airplane came with.

...and then there's Southwest.

You're right. The similarities end with the fact that we both fly 737's, except one company blows part of my profit sharing check out the tailpipe every time they taxi.

 

[scoreboardII]

And we come full circle once again. Third time at least by my count.

 

[Max Powers]

Pretty dramatic indeed. One carrier was growing quickly their near international destinations, opening new domiciles, adding new cities, making sure they were technologically advanced to press into the future, finding ways to generate ancillary income (like every other airline) enabling a price undercut of the competition, and actually utilizing all the automation (increased safety) the airplane came with.

...and then there's Southwest.

You're right. The similarities end with the fact that we both fly 737's, except one company blows part of my profit sharing check out the tailpipe every time they taxi.

That sums up the truth. Too bad folks like scoreboard...ahh never mind not worth my time.

 

[Phlintstone]

I can't fight your fight, nor would I ever entertain SWAPA fighting your fight, sorry. Higher pay to you is less pay to me. We are competitors until closing. Now that we are closed, it's a different story to be sure, but SWAPA asking SWA to raise AT rates is justified how? DFR's would fly from the rafters if SWAPA fights one inch of ALPA issues, sorry.


This disparity in pay evaporates in 24 months and 21 days, so, SWAPA needs not spend one shred of SWAPA goodwill to help AT raise their rates, they have their guys fighting for them.

Dude, you are as clueless as SC. Do you really think AT is a competitor!?

Phred.

 

[Ty Webb]

Bingo. Two carriers that happened to fly a 737, the rest of the differences were pretty dramatic. You can't re-write history on how far apart these two companies were.

Wow, what a pair of mushrooms.

You're either r-e-a-l-l-y senior, or really stupid.

 

[Lear70]

I have to say I hate hearing this "relative" example.

That's because you're not the one who's getting your Quality of Life hammered when you "cross the partition" (when there shouldn't be a "partition", it should have been one group on FAA SOC like nearly every other airline merger out there). You simply aren't looking at it from our perspective, and the truth is that very little changes for you with this deal because your management team went to bat for you.

Especially when almost 15% of the Southwest pilots were hired even before your predecessor started operations.

Wow. A WHOLE 15%? A whole WHOPPING 15%? That's just crazy talk right there...

It's funny that my relative seniority didn't move up 60-70%. And even though both were "non bankrupt, profitable carriers", I would argue that the similarities end there.

Hey, math doesn't lie. I was bidding in the top 200 F/O's of a nearly 900 pool of F/O's (approx). That's roughly the top 20%.

Now I'm in the BOTTOM 20% of F/O's, NEARLY THE BOTTOM 10% bidding at 88%, courtesy of losing 2.5 years of seniority when SWA was hiring 800+ a year. That's nearly a 70% relative loss of bidding power, no matter HOW you slice it, which is why I've been bypassing on our training bids to come over there. Too big of a seniority hit, especially until all the guys junior to me HERE come over there and plug the reserve holes in the West Coast bases. 7 people have come out of MCO from the right seat of the 737, leaving me bidding #1 and I like it.

Twist it any way you want, but your own pilots on here have admitted that being that low on the totem pole, I'm going to be sitting reserve somewhere and I won't be able to manipulate my schedule like you guys talk about until I'm well above the 50% mark, which doesn't happen in the F/O ranks until I'm about 48, and NEVER happens when I upgrade at close to age 55, barring some pretty serious double-digit growth somewhere between now and then. I'm going to retire working weekends and holidays flying 6 legs a day through East Texas. Awesome.

You can be "tired of hearing it" all you want, but the truth doesn't die just because you don't like it. I'm stuck with it, but I haven't brought it up on here lately unless other people (like you) make some comment like the above or say something else erroneous about the integration like one of our own, Old Man Pilot back on page 5. I didn't say squat about it until then.

I will quit mentioning it as long as people simply shut up about it. Again, sorry you don't like hearing the truth that WE ARE GOING TO BE LIVING. The numbers are what the numbers are. Period. The end.

 

[Ty Webb]

Pretty dramatic indeed. One carrier was growing quickly their near international destinations, opening new domiciles, adding new cities, making sure they were technologically advanced to press into the future, finding ways to generate ancillary income (like every other airline) enabling a price undercut of the competition, and actually utilizing all the automation (increased safety) the airplane came with.

...and then there's Southwest.

You're right. The similarities end with the fact that we both fly 737's, except one company blows part of my profit sharing check out the tailpipe every time they taxi.

Don't forget that one carrier's pairings are commutable on both ends, and can be traded with open time up to 24 hours before report time, or simply dropped back to the Company altogether.

I sure hope SWAPA's Scheduling Committee is taking a good, hard look at what AAI has gotten, before it's gone.

 

[orangebellyav8r]

Twist it any way you want, but your own pilots on here have admitted that being that low on the totem pole, I'm going to be sitting reserve somewhere and I won't be able to manipulate my schedule like you guys talk about until I'm well above the 50% mark, which doesn't happen in the F/O ranks until I'm about 48, and NEVER happens when I upgrade at close to age 55, barring some pretty serious double-digit growth somewhere between now and then. I'm going to retire working weekends and holidays flying 6 legs a day through East Texas. Awesome.

SUCKS TO BE YOU.....East Texas ain't that bad. You will fit in quit well, you know what they say...Notin bit queers and steers, so I take it you don't have a tail and horns

 

[redflyer65]

Wow, what a pair of mushrooms.

You're either r-e-a-l-l-y senior, or really stupid.

Hey,

It's all water under the bridge at this point, but I'd be glad to lay out ever difference between Pay and QOL between both carriers if you'd like.

 

[Tripower455]

I can't believe I'm gonna feed this troll, but here goes...

Your union has continued to forget about it's new members.

You obviously weren't around when Delta bought Pan Am's Atlantic routes (you know, the ones that turned Delta from a mostly domestic to international carrier), taking pilots OUT of seniority order. The only guys who could go to Delta were those current and qualified on the 727 or A310. The #1 747 guy on the list was SOL while a 727 FE got to go.

Same pay for same equipment (737) is just basic.

I guess it was too basic for Delta too. The transistioned Pan Am guys didn't get Delta pay for 27 months from the time they became Delta pilots. And they were flying DELTA AIRPLANES, with DELTA UNIFORMS and getting DELTA paychecks..... And they were the lucky ones.

The guys that stayed at Pan Am, who were wholly owned by Delta, didn't fare so well. Wanna talk about getting hosed?

Why wait until 2015? Ridiculous. That is called a JOINT contract? This slow gradual migration over to the Corndog side is also ridiculous. You know that. You don't get paid SWA wages until you go to school? Huh?

Why did the Pan Am guys, who were now Delta pilots, wearing Delta uniforms flying Delta airplanes, have to wait over 2 years AFTER they were Delta pilots to get Delta pay?

While they were certainly happy to have jobs, the Pan Am "Aquired Airmen" don't have much nice to say about how they were treated by Delta or DALPA. And they were roughly 600 PA guys integrated into a 10K (IIRC) pilot group and most of the Capts were retired within 10 years.