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SWAPA has a transition agreement

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redflyer65 said:
Wasn't aimed at you Lear. Just trying to set the record straight on this part of the ALPA MEC letter...

The unwillingness, to date, of SWAPA representatives to agree to any specific point in time by which the integrated list will be implemented is troubling.

That line is not factual at all.

As far as single engine taxi, I say it could come into play at certain airports but more times than not we are in the air and gone too quickly. It will diffently have it's place though!
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Sure sounds like a shakedown, IMO. SWAPA wants something they know they won't get in arbitration, therefore they delay everything. Kinda shameful, too. Show the LUV, baby! I think Senators Bond and McKaskil should be notified to maybe set up some hearings for GK to testify in front of. I bet ALPA could get support for that to happen.


OYS
 
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On Your Six said:
Sure sounds like a shakedown, IMO. SWAPA wants something they know they won't get in arbitration, therefore they delay everything. Kinda shameful, too. Show the LUV, baby! I think Senators Bond and McKaskil should be notified to maybe set up some hearings for GK to testify in front of. I bet ALPA could get support for that to happen.


OYS
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Shakedown???? It is legal posturing to protect the members on their seniority list. I am sure that the AT MEC has been consulting with it's lawyers to formulate a game plan and legal arguments for their side too. What did you expect SWAPA to do? Offer you relative and say thanks for coming over? This is going to be a long back and forth and even though it becomes difficult at times, we need to let each side do their job.

In the end, hopefully we will end up with a powerful airline and all our careers will be elevated. Till then....relax and enjoy life!!!
 
On Your Six said:
I think Senators Bond and McKaskil should be notified to maybe set up some hearings for GK to testify in front of. I bet ALPA could get support for that to happen.


OYS
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Now that's funny. I think Bond and McCaskill will be fighting for their political life's soon. Heck, they might not even be in office by then! So what exactly is Gary doing wrong here?

So let me get this straight..

Now that your worried AAI pilots don't get a big pay windfall of almost $7000 a month.....all the sudden it's a 'shakedown'?

Interesting indeed!
 
redflyer65 said:
Now that's funny. I think Bond and McCaskill will be fighting for their political life's soon. Heck, they might not even be in office by then! So what exactly is Gary doing wrong here?

So let me get this straight..

Now that your worried AAI pilots don't get a big pay windfall of almost $7000 a month.....all the sudden it's a 'shakedown'?

Interesting indeed!
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What's funny is that you use the term "windfall" when in fact it's a pay raise. You are purposely trying to act dumb by insinuating that the "windfall" airtran pilots receive is at the expense of southwest pilots. You don't lose a thing. You are just pissed they will make what you make even though it won't affect you one bit.
 
What's funny is that you use the term "windfall" when in fact it's a pay raise. You are purposely trying to act dumb by insinuating that the "windfall" airtran pilots receive is at the expense of southwest pilots
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So you don't think SWA paying an extra $11,000,000 a month in salary and benefits to your group, operating a money losing operation, has any effect on SWAPA pilots? Right!
 
jonjuan said:
Please explain. thx
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Schedule bidding, training bidding, vacation bidding, upgrade time and pay (to name a few) if even one single AirTran pilot gets ahead of them on the seniority list. Major major screw job for SWA FOs.
 
Bob Dylan said:
Schedule bidding, training bidding, vacation bidding, upgrade time and pay (to name a few) if even one single AirTran pilot gets ahead of them on the seniority list. Major major screw job for SWA FOs.
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Well then, they should have known coming in at the tail end of a hiring wave (2000-2008) was a huge risk. Their beef then should be with their senior, 4 year upgrade CAs who pushed for age 65, but nooooooooo.....
Upgrade timelines will remain the same or shrink, schedule bidding, training bidding, vacation bidding will remain the same in similar relative seniority.
Explain again why once the merger was announced, southwest will now be getting new airplanes and will now hire (meaning faster upgrades). No planes and no hiring means no upgrades. But then again, you knew that. :rolleyes:
 
It's very simple, if I was a Southwest FO that wanted a certain week of vacation and it goes to a Trannie instead (who never got hired on, or maybe even got turned down after busting a SWA interview) then I would be royally screwed by this "merger" (not really a merger, but you get the idea).

Every single AirTran pilot gets a huge windfall no matter what the integration is like, which is why most people think a staple is very fair. Trannies start at the bottom just like every other Southwest pilot did.
 
redflyer65 said:
Quoting General Lee as your source..

Classic.
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I do know many SWA CAPTAINS left SWA pre-9-11 for UAL and then got furloughed. They probably just got tired of the long, multi leg days. I am sure they may be kicking themselves now, but they obviously had a reason then to do it.

Your Civil War with AT coming up here is going to be a lot of fun. For some reason we didn't have one with our larger merger, oh wait, there was a common goal to get a JOINT contract first before the SLI. You guys will just never learn.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
roughneck said:
So you don't think SWA paying an extra $11,000,000 a month in salary and benefits to your group, operating a money losing operation, has any effect on SWAPA pilots? Right!
Click to expand...



Gary Kelly has already told shareholders, the SEC and you that buying AirTran will make SWA money by integrating the operations. He has warned them that without integration SWA could lose money.

The cost of paying AirTran employees SWA wages is calculated as a part of that integration. It's in the SEC filings.

Are you saying that Gary Kelly is lying or wrong ?
 
General Lee said:
I do know many SWA CAPTAINS left SWA pre-9-11 for UAL and then got furloughed. They probably just got tired of the long, multi leg days. I am sure they may be kicking themselves now, but they obviously had a reason then to do it.

Your Civil War with AT coming up here is going to be a lot of fun. For some reason we didn't have one with our larger merger, oh wait, there was a common goal to get a JOINT contract first before the SLI. You guys will just never learn.



Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...

Thats funny. I have worked at SWA for 15 years and have not heard of ONE Captain that left for UAL and only a few probationary pilots that did. During that time I flew with a few that left UAL for SWA also.

So tell me oh wise one, how do you KNOW this false information.

This board is worthless anymore.
 
Bob Dylan said:
It's very simple, if I was a Southwest FO that wanted a certain week of vacation and it goes to a Trannie instead (who never got hired on, or maybe even got turned down after busting a SWA interview) then I would be royally screwed by this "merger" (not really a merger, but you get the idea).

Every single AirTran pilot gets a huge windfall no matter what the integration is like, which is why most people think a staple is very fair. Trannies start at the bottom just like every other Southwest pilot did.
Click to expand...


Bobby,

Every recent arbitration award disagrees with you. Now, I know you don't fly for either airline (just like me), and you are entitled to your opinion. Maybe you should sign up to be an arbitrator. I know one side that would do anything to give you a shot at it.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
dicko said:
Gary Kelly has already told shareholders, the SEC and you that buying AirTran will make SWA money by integrating the operations. He has warned them that without integration SWA could lose money.

The cost of paying AirTran employees SWA wages is calculated as a part of that integration. It's in the SEC filings.

Are you saying that Gary Kelly is lying or wrong ?
Click to expand...

He's just saying that he and redflyer are smarter than Gary. Bottom line is they simply want to accelerate their upgrade timeline by standing on the shoulders of the airtran peeps. Bob Dylan also seems to think that there will be less vacation time to go around with the addition of more pilots.
 
jonjuan said:
What's funny is that you use the term "windfall" when in fact it's a pay raise. You are purposely trying to act dumb by insinuating that the "windfall" airtran pilots receive is at the expense of southwest pilots. You don't lose a thing. You are just pissed they will make what you make even though it won't affect you one bit.
Click to expand...

Ok Jonjuan,

What does the Southwest pilot group get out of the merged list?

Payraise like Airtran? No.

So enlighten me on the 'fair and equitable' portion from the SW side while the AAI guys are stepping up the backs of the SW pilots contract (that they worked for YEARS to obtain). Tell me.
 
redflyer65 said:
Ok Jonjuan,

What does the Southwest pilot group get out of the merged list?

Payraise like Airtran? No.

So enlighten me on the 'fair and equitable' portion from the SW side while the AAI guys are stepping up the backs of the SW pilots contract (that they worked for YEARS to obtain). Tell me.
Click to expand...
You already got your pay raise. Now it's ATALPAs turn.
You get more growth that was grinding to a halt (at least GK thinks this). Upgrades should continue, albeit at a much slower pace versus grinding to a halt. You got what GK said you would get- a more stable company with a little more growth. The alternative? You go backwards in terms of competition and much longer upgrades.


Finally:
General Lee said:
You are trying to manage their expectations, and really, you can't.
Click to expand...
 
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Gary will run the company as he see's fit. Neither of us have any input on those kind of decisions. For ALPA or SWAPA to attempt to dictate anything different is ludicrous.

The future is completely unknown. Gary could buy Airtran and STILL say no growth until 2015. You can't predict 1000 factors that effect this industry. He could just as easily cancel ALL orders, including yours. There is no gurantee to any quick upgrade or growth.
 
Let me ask you this. What does the #1 sw pilot want? What does he/she thinks he/she deserves in the merger?
 
He could careless for two reasons,

1-He will be long gone before there is ever a SLI.
2-He was hired way before all the AAI guys anyway.

Better question is what does the #1 FO at AAI expect to gain from the Southwest contract?
 
The Alpa job killing machine just took another major beat down, one in a long list of future beat downs to come with this deal. They will not rest until they burn the SWAPA house down.

If the tables were turned The ALPA job killing machine would be trying to do the very same thing to SWAPA. ALPA is used to running the show and being in charge of every meeting and negotiation. It burns them up they are not calling the shots on this deal, they are going to throw fits,scream bloody murder and drag their feet forever until we all end up with a US Air deal

There is no talking to the citrus guys that want all the good deals they are getting plus our left seats

Fence them off forever then choke them off like we did to the fools at Muse.

I bet the citrus guys that turned down the new hire offer a couple months ago are kicking themselves.

I'm just saying
 
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Only Check Airman can give PC's at SWA.....don't expect that to change. Was in Dallas for training and Bob Torti said "SWAPA will never buy that" (non-SWA check airman giving PC's)



Lear70 said:
Aircrew Program Designee - they are company employees in the training department who can give Type Ratings as well as PC's / PT's.

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=3379CB6C41F3E7C3862573D0006CB2FE


As for "Single Operating Carrier", in FAA speak, that means "on the day we can surrender the AirTran Operating Certificate and operations with all fleets and employees continues on a daily basis as-normal."

The only way they can do that is to have every, single facet of the operation on the Southwest Ops Cert.

Thanks for the details, Scoreboard. More to come, I'm sure.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted by Lear70
Aircrew Program Designee - they are company employees in the training department who can give Type Ratings as well as PC's / PT's.

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?...2573D0006CB2FE


As for "Single Operating Carrier", in FAA speak, that means "on the day we can surrender the AirTran Operating Certificate and operations with all fleets and employees continues on a daily basis as-normal."

The only way they can do that is to have every, single facet of the operation on the Southwest Ops Cert.

Thanks for the details, Scoreboard. More to come, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

This was taken care of in our Transition Agreement. AirTran check pilots or instructors will not be checking or training Southwest pilots.
 
jonjuan said:
Let me ask you this. What does the #1 sw pilot want? What does he/she thinks he/she deserves in the merger?
Click to expand...

I'll guarantee you he wants a straight staple because it's the fairest thing in the world. Everybody starts at the bottom of the SWA list just like they always have.

Add to it that the majority of Trannies would vote for a staple anyway if it were put to a vote.
 

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