SWAPA has a transition agreement

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

On Your Six, do you not have a life? You really are not helping out Airtran at all! If anything you are making it worse.

 

[SWA/FO]

Will the Southwest pilots be giving any of their own pay to fund raises for Airtran pilots? If not, then zip it. You aren't giving up a dime.

Nice try, OUR Union got that for us. You are not us, a member of our UNION or on our list (and you might NEVER be). So you can keep spouting off all you want, not gonna happen until you are in our UNION and on OUR list.

 

[Kharma Police]

Nice try, OUR Union got that for us. You are not us, a member of our UNION or on our list (and you might NEVER be). So you can keep spouting off all you want, not gonna happen until you are in our UNION and on OUR list.

Why would a Delta pilot want to be part of SWAPA?

 

[SWA/FO]

Same for him, if he wants SWA money he needs to be in our UNION.

 

[texman]

Again what both sides need to remember. Until the two air carriers actually merge, SLI assumptions and arbitration are only fictitious. We should know more by this summer.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Does any of this involve you? If not, then zip it. We neither need, nor want your input. Let the grown ups talk now...you know, the people who this actually affects. Go back to your substandard career, and await your next bankruptcy / furlough. See ya.

PW

Another shining example of the "culture" of LUV. I sure hope not.

 

[FlyinGuy]

If you are short sighted there may not be an upside, however what will it look like 5 years or even 10 years down the road. There might be more upside than you think.

I think you nailed it (and probably did not mean to)!!! Emphasize the word MIGHT. SWAPA pilots MIGHT get something out of this deal 5-10 years from now. AT pilots WILL get a huge benefit soon.

That is the simple truth.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Why would a Delta pilot want to be part of SWAPA?

Had a SWA NEWHIRE last week on my jumpseat. He came from Delta. Best to just ask him...

 

[Kharma Police]

Had a SWA NEWHIRE last week on my jumpseat. He came from Delta. Best to just ask him...

Surprisingly, you missed the point. SWA/FO decided to go on an AirTran directed tirade and I pointed out that the poster that got his blood pressure up is a Delta pilot, not AirTran.

As for the Delta pilot on your j/s, why don't you ask him why he left, I could care less.

 

[dh82dvr]

I think you nailed it (and probably did not mean to)!!! Emphasize the word MIGHT. SWAPA pilots MIGHT get something out of this deal 5-10 years from now. AT pilots WILL get a huge benefit soon.

That is the simple truth.

I guess more aeroplanes, international flying, and every other increase in the swa operation will get the average swapa pilot nothing. Its unfortunate that you can't look further ahead with some sort of positive outlook.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Surprisingly, you missed the point. SWA/FO decided to go on an AirTran directed tirade and I pointed out that the poster that got his blood pressure up is a Delta pilot, not AirTran.

As for the Delta pilot on your j/s, why don't you ask him why he left, I could care less.

I'm not surprised you missed the point...

I agree with swa/fo in this case... I have heard countless times Airtran pilots only want to keep their senority... (why keep it at an airline that will not have any airplanes, I cannot understand) Airtran pilots right now do not have any SWAPA senority to keep. SWAPA pilots have SWAPA senority. Delta pilots are watching this. They should be, it can directly affect them in many ways...Some of them have chosen to apply and get hired...

 

[dicko]

If you want to compare apples to apples, lets do that. An 8 yr. AAI CA gets paid $149/hr and is guaranteed 70 hours per month for a guaranteed minimum of $10430. An 8 yr. SWA F/O is paid $139/hr and is guaranteed 77 hours per month for a guaranteed minimum of $10703. Apples to apples. (side note: I know you can fly more, and do...we can and do too, and probably to a greater extent) So, in essence, our F/O's make more than your CA's. Please explain to me why you, or anyone else for that matter, thinks that your DOH at AAI should be valued greater on a combined list (the result of a relative seniority type solution), since regardless of the seat you occupy at that longevity at AAI, it is valued less now??? You want to talk anything approaching relative seniority, call the leg store, 'cause you're gonna need something to stand on. Start basing your arguments on the realities of this situation, then maybe we can talk. Just to make it clear to you, every F/O at AAI will realize the equivalent of an upgrade by becoming a SWA pilot. You know upgrade, that's the point in your career when you trade in seniority to make more money. Contrary to Ty's continual assertions, seniority isn't forever, it's a commodity that is regularly traded for a better life for your family. If that wasn't the case, we'd all still be regional captains. Capisce? (Sorry about the run-on paragraph, D. )

Fraternally,
Papawoody

Sorry man. I don't read most of it anymore. I'm afraid I'll have some sort of 'fit' from the giant paragraph.

Your numbers are wrong. The guarantees have changed .... I can pick the numbers out of the jumble of letters more easily.

I'm too bored to explain again the fallacy of comparing the Chaut/Shuttle SLI. Your lawyer will do it for you. Here's a hint though; One of those airlines was a bankrupt 30 seat turboprop operator.

Time for my nap,

Cheers.

 

[Flying the Line]

What are the March averages in hours and days off for Airtran. Any plane or domicile, just would like an idea of the top to bottom averages.

 

[texman]

Sorry man. I don't read most of it anymore. I'm afraid I'll have some sort of 'fit' from the giant paragraph.

Your numbers are wrong. The guarantees have changed .... I can pick the numbers out of the jumble of letters more easily.

I'm too bored to explain again the fallacy of comparing the Chaut/Shuttle SLI. Your lawyer will do it for you. Here's a hint though; One of those airlines was a bankrupt 30 seat turboprop operator.

Time for my nap,

Cheers.

When did the guarantees change?

 

[Ty Webb]

Your numbers are wrong. The guarantees have changed .... I can pick the numbers out of the jumble of letters more easily.

I'm too bored to explain again the fallacy of comparing the Chaut/Shuttle SLI. Your lawyer will do it for you. Here's a hint though; One of those airlines was a bankrupt 30 seat turboprop operator.

Time for my nap,

Cheers.

I hear ya. These threads are mostly nonsense, why even bother responding? I don't anymore. It's like arguing with a bunch of "troofers". I just come by every now and then for a laugh. :laugh:

 

[Bob Dylan]

I hear ya. These threads are mostly nonsense, why even bother responding? I don't anymore. It's like arguing with a bunch of "troofers". I just come by every now and then for a laugh. :laugh:

I heard you stopped posting because you got in trouble by your union and they made you stop.

 

[Kharma Police]

I'm not surprised you missed the point...

I agree with swa/fo in this case... I have heard countless times Airtran pilots only want to keep their senority... (why keep it at an airline that will not have any airplanes, I cannot understand) Airtran pilots right now do not have any SWAPA senority to keep. SWAPA pilots have SWAPA senority. Delta pilots are watching this. They should be, it can directly affect them in many ways...Some of them have chosen to apply and get hired...

You and I will keep whatever seniority the arbitrator gives us. Thumping your chest won't change what you can't control, sorry.

 

[jonjuan]

Had a SWA NEWHIRE last week on my jumpseat. He came from Delta. Best to just ask him...

She'll regret that in 5 years.

 

[Ty Webb]

I heard you stopped posting because you got in trouble by your union and they made you stop.

Nope. No one has mentioned it to me. I just decided it was a waste of time . . . there is no dialogue here, just negativity and spin.

 

[RLAblows]

I think you nailed it (and probably did not mean to)!!! Emphasize the word MIGHT. SWAPA pilots MIGHT get something out of this deal 5-10 years from now. AT pilots WILL get a huge benefit soon.

That is the simple truth.

True, and what's wrong with that? More then likely if you were to merge with any airline, one would have a better contract then the other. I don't think it will take 5 + years for SWA pilots to realize the gains of the combined airlines. After all, SWA just took 2 of AirTrans 737s. The poolies are being given class dates. You are planning on future hiring. Gary Kelly said all of this growth is happening because of the AirTran merger. Are these not gains for the SWA pilot group?

 

[boeing717]

True, and what's wrong with that? More then likely if you were to merge with any airline, one would have a better contract then the other. I don't think it will take 5 + years for SWA pilots to realize the gains of the combined airlines. After all, SWA just took 2 of AirTrans 737s. The poolies are being given class dates. You are planning on future hiring. Gary Kelly said all of this growth is happening because of the AirTran merger. Are these not gains for the SWA pilot group?

I think we are also gaining from the same thing when we are joined together.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

........

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

For all the bravado from the boys/girls from Luv, one would think they have been an industry leader in pay/benefits for years. The truth is only since Q1 of 2004 did they go above the industry. It took 4 legacies in ch11 for that to occur. Looking back to Q1 2001 luv was a drag on the industry, somewhere between a good regional and the legacies. The chart starts at Q1 2001 but my guess is the "southwest effect" was even more pronounced (read, bottom feeder wages/benefits) the first 18 years. Keep in mind that in the early 90s most legacies were under concessionary contracts and luv still lagged.

 

[Dash Power]

Nope. No one has mentioned it to me. I just decided it was a waste of time . . . there is no dialogue here, just negativity and spin.

Yep. A quick check back here and the same old thing. Does anyone really fool themselves thinking they can change someones mind on this board? It naturally attracts closed minded people.

I wish there was some common interest with the same misguided passion. For instance how our entire profession has been downgraded in pay and benefits the past thirty years. We have new hires on food stamps by god.

 

[RLAblows]

I think we are also gaining from the same thing when we are joined together.

I agree, but the theme seems to be that the SWA pilots are getting nothing from the deal. Yet the gains from this deal are already starting to be realized in Dallas in the form of new hires. They just refuse to see it.

 

[Dash Power]

For all the bravado from the boys/girls from Luv, one would think they have been an industry leader in pay/benefits for years. The truth is only since Q1 of 2004 did they go above the industry. It took 4 legacies in ch11 for that to occur. Looking back to Q1 2001 luv was a drag on the industry, somewhere between a good regional and the legacies. The chart starts at Q1 2001 but my guess is the "southwest effect" was even more pronounced (read, bottom feeder wages/benefits) the first 18 years. Keep in mind that in the early 90s most legacies were under concessionary contracts and luv still lagged.

The legacies agreed to B scales in the mid 80's well before SWA was on the radar.

This is an industry problem. SWA included.

 

[boeing717]

I agree, but the theme seems to be that the SWA pilots are getting nothing from the deal. Yet the gains from this deal are already starting to be realized in Dallas in the form of new hires. They just refuse to see it.

If we get the same thing as SWA then it is a wash. You cannot say they are getting something from the deal if we are gettting the same thing. You need to find something that they are getting that we are not. That will be hard.

 

[RLAblows]

If we get the same thing as SWA then it is a wash. You cannot say they are getting something from the deal if we are gettting the same thing. You need to find something that they are getting that we are not. That will be hard.

You mean for example the 2 737s we just lost to them?

 

[RLAblows]

If we get the same thing as SWA then it is a wash. You cannot say they are getting something from the deal if we are gettting the same thing. You need to find something that they are getting that we are not. That will be hard.

That has been my point all along. We are both gaining because of the merger, but the SWA pilots say they are gaining nothing.

 

[texman]

I agree, but the theme seems to be that the SWA pilots are getting nothing from the deal. Yet the gains from this deal are already starting to be realized in Dallas in the form of new hires. They just refuse to see it.

From Air Tran's 2Q10 10Q:


As of June 30, 2010, our aircraft purchase commitments for the remainder of 2010 and for the next five years and thereafter, in aggregate, are (in millions): 2010—$20; 2011—$140; 2012—$270; 2013—$280; 2014—$370; 2015—$510; and thereafter—$580. These amounts include payment commitments, including payment of pre-delivery deposits, for aircraft on firm order. Aircraft purchase commitments include the forecasted impact of contractual price escalations. Our intention is to finance the aircraft on order through either debt financing, lease financing, or a mix thereof. We have financing commitments from a lender to finance a majority of the acquisition price of two B737 aircraft scheduled for delivery to us in 2011 or 2012. We have not yet arranged for aircraft financing for any of the other aircraft deliveries.

As the deliveries do come SWA, I would also keep a open mind on how they are getting here. AT would have never taking any of them. Lack of capital. Remember SWA has 250 orders and options with boeing too. Yes it is nice we can take all future deliveries form AT, but you have to realize SWA's capital is the key to any of this going forward. Again AT pilots need to ask the shareholders and Bob why your are being sold. I think it is a pretty weak assumption that the pilots (both sides) have a hand at what they bring in relationship to aircraft.

As far as getting something from the deal? I think we all are. I think you are better off at SWA than you would be at AT in the long run. Your company is hurting. If you where not then this deal would have never gone down. You guy's have money but not enough to survive the long haul.

AT guy's have to realize after the corporate closing we will own you. I hope that day the AT people play as a success sharing team and not burn down the house. You operation is going to put a negative financial impact on our operations initially. You will be part of SWA's long term success as much as the current SWA pilots. Your career expectations will be better off also. Don't think of ME or what I should get now, think 10 years from now.

Don't be surprise if you see another asset acquisition that SWA will be involved with. It's all good.

As far as the new hires, it is do to more vacations, because the group is becoming senior.