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SWAPA has a transition agreement

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Gary will run the company as he see's fit. Neither of us have any input on those kind of decisions. For ALPA or SWAPA to attempt to dictate anything different is ludicrous.

The future is completely unknown. Gary could buy Airtran and STILL say no growth until 2015. You can't predict 1000 factors that effect this industry. He could just as easily cancel ALL orders, including yours. There is no gurantee to any quick upgrade or growth.
 
Let me ask you this. What does the #1 sw pilot want? What does he/she thinks he/she deserves in the merger?
 
He could careless for two reasons,

1-He will be long gone before there is ever a SLI.
2-He was hired way before all the AAI guys anyway.

Better question is what does the #1 FO at AAI expect to gain from the Southwest contract?
 
The Alpa job killing machine just took another major beat down, one in a long list of future beat downs to come with this deal. They will not rest until they burn the SWAPA house down.

If the tables were turned The ALPA job killing machine would be trying to do the very same thing to SWAPA. ALPA is used to running the show and being in charge of every meeting and negotiation. It burns them up they are not calling the shots on this deal, they are going to throw fits,scream bloody murder and drag their feet forever until we all end up with a US Air deal

There is no talking to the citrus guys that want all the good deals they are getting plus our left seats

Fence them off forever then choke them off like we did to the fools at Muse.

I bet the citrus guys that turned down the new hire offer a couple months ago are kicking themselves.

I'm just saying
 
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Only Check Airman can give PC's at SWA.....don't expect that to change. Was in Dallas for training and Bob Torti said "SWAPA will never buy that" (non-SWA check airman giving PC's)



Lear70 said:
Aircrew Program Designee - they are company employees in the training department who can give Type Ratings as well as PC's / PT's.

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=3379CB6C41F3E7C3862573D0006CB2FE


As for "Single Operating Carrier", in FAA speak, that means "on the day we can surrender the AirTran Operating Certificate and operations with all fleets and employees continues on a daily basis as-normal."

The only way they can do that is to have every, single facet of the operation on the Southwest Ops Cert.

Thanks for the details, Scoreboard. More to come, I'm sure.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted by Lear70
Aircrew Program Designee - they are company employees in the training department who can give Type Ratings as well as PC's / PT's.

http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?...2573D0006CB2FE


As for "Single Operating Carrier", in FAA speak, that means "on the day we can surrender the AirTran Operating Certificate and operations with all fleets and employees continues on a daily basis as-normal."

The only way they can do that is to have every, single facet of the operation on the Southwest Ops Cert.

Thanks for the details, Scoreboard. More to come, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

This was taken care of in our Transition Agreement. AirTran check pilots or instructors will not be checking or training Southwest pilots.
 
jonjuan said:
Let me ask you this. What does the #1 sw pilot want? What does he/she thinks he/she deserves in the merger?
Click to expand...

I'll guarantee you he wants a straight staple because it's the fairest thing in the world. Everybody starts at the bottom of the SWA list just like they always have.

Add to it that the majority of Trannies would vote for a staple anyway if it were put to a vote.
 
General Lee said:
Bobby,

Every recent arbitration award disagrees with you. Now, I know you don't fly for either airline (just like me), and you are entitled to your opinion. Maybe you should sign up to be an arbitrator. I know one side that would do anything to give you a shot at it.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that a staple would be fair or equitable, but I will point out that you always seem to conveniently "forget" about the Chautaqua/Shuttle America arbitrated award, GL. Was recent, was a lot more similar to our situation than NW/DL, was arbitrated according to Allegheney/Mohawk, pay and benefit disparity was an issue, and the final result wasn't even close to relative seniority. But keep only including examples that support your assertion that "relative seniority is the law". And we'll keep disregarding every vitriolic thing you say. Deal? Deal. Good talk.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody
 
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PapaWoody said:
I'm not saying that a staple would be fair or equitable, but I will point out that you always seem to conveniently "forget" about the Chautaqua/Shuttle America arbitrated award, GL. Was recent, was a lot more similar to our situation than NW/DL, was arbitrated according to Allegheney/Mohawk, pay and benefit disparity was an issue, and the final result wasn't even close to relative seniority. But keep only including examples that support your assertion that "relative seniority is the law". And we'll keep disregarding every vitriolic thing you say. Deal? Deal. Good talk.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody
Click to expand...

Im an AAI guy, and to be perfectly honest, I would not mind if this entire thing went away. Im a pretty senior FO and this merger is going to hose my upgrade. As it stands now, I get whatever time off I need, get any vacation I need, and my quality of life is amazing. I averaged 17 days off last year and live very comfortbaly with my AAI pay... What do I want out of the merger? I want to keep my quality of life about the same. Relative seniority would do that. However, I also understand that we will be getting a pay raise, so we need to give somewhere. You need to remember that AAI was still growing, uprgrading, and hiring. Our career expectations were much faster then the guys at SWA. I think most AAI guys would be willing to give up "some" relative seniority. That would boost the seniority of EVER SWA pilot on property. Not only that, SWA is now growing, hiring, and taking AAI airplanes. All of those things help the SWA pilot group. Its not like you aren't gaining anything out of this merger. YOUR ARE. However, your contract isn't good enough for SWA pilots to get a windfall with seniority. SWA 8 year pay is $10/hr less then AAI's, and 9 year pay is $13/hr less then AAI. IVe said it before, if everyone comes to the table with a level head, this will work great, but if any one pilot group comes looking for a windfall, its going to get ugly. What your union is telling you about wages is very misleading. Yes, your average FO rate is probably $40 grand a year more then the average AAI FO, but the average SWA FO has also been at SWA a much longer then AAI. If you compare years of service, then that amount is much less, and in some cases, SWA is behind AAI.
 
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gt1900, what is the guarantee monthly hours at AT vs SWA. I think it 87 trips for pay at SWA while most say they do well over that. what's it at AT? If you are capped to say 70-75 hours isn't there a huge disparity paywise when you look beyond just the pay rate?
 
Please post the rates of pay at AAI and the monthly guarantee? My buds at AAI tell me that we at SWA are paid a good deal more? Sooooo.....I am having a hard time understanding what they tell me vs. what you are posting??? I also understand our Med/dental insurance is much cheaper than yours. How much do you pay for a family of 4? We are self insured and our rates (I am told my the company/swapa) are some of the lowest.




gt1900 said:
Im an AAI guy, and to be perfectly honest, I would not mind if this entire thing went away. Im a pretty senior FO and this merger is going to hose my upgrade. As it stands now, I get whatever time off I need, get any vacation I need, and my quality of life is amazing. I averaged 17 days off last year and live very comfortbaly with my AAI pay... What do I want out of the merger? I want to keep my quality of life about the same. Relative seniority would do that. However, I also understand that we will be getting a pay raise, so we need to give somewhere. You need to remember that AAI was still growing, uprgrading, and hiring. Our career expectations were much faster then the guys at SWA. I think most AAI guys would be willing to give up "some" relative seniority. That would boost the seniority of EVER SWA pilot on property. Not only that, SWA is now growing, hiring, and taking AAI airplanes. All of those things help the SWA pilot group. Its not like you aren't gaining anything out of this merger. YOUR ARE. However, your contract isn't good enough for SWA pilots to get a windfall with seniority. SWA 8 year pay is $10/hr less then AAI's, and 9 year pay is $13/hr less then AAI. IVe said it before, if everyone comes to the table with a level head, this will work great, but if any one pilot group comes looking for a windfall, its going to get ugly. What your union is telling you about wages is very misleading. Yes, your average FO rate is probably $40 grand a year more then the average AAI FO, but the average SWA FO has also been at SWA a much longer then AAI. If you compare years of service, then that amount is much less, and in some cases, SWA is behind AAI.
Click to expand...
 
gt1900 said:
SWA 8 year pay is $10/hr less then AAI's, and 9 year pay is $13/hr less then AAI.
Click to expand...

According to APC, SWA 8 yr fo is 139 and AT is 95, SWA 9 yr fo is 140 and AT is 97. Where do you come up with SWA's is less than AT's? Oh, maybe you were talking about ca pay. Let's see, SWA 8 yr ca is 201 and AT is 149, SWA 9 yr ca is 203 and AT is 153. Where is this "AT's pay is 10 and 13 more than SWA come from"?
 
N1kawotg said:
gt1900, what is the guarantee monthly hours at AT vs SWA. I think it 87 trips for pay at SWA while most say they do well over that. what's it at AT? If you are capped to say 70-75 hours isn't there a huge disparity paywise when you look beyond just the pay rate?
Click to expand...

AirTran doesn't have a cap on monthly flying like many other airlines.
 
It's not a cap Kharma, its a MINIMUM GUARANTEE. SWA does not have a cap. I will get credited for over 140 trips in March or about 18,000 dollars gross pay for the month. I'm an FO. We just trying to figure out where gt gets his numbers.
 

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