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Why do you always have to focus on the negative instead of embracing the positive? :confused:

It's impossible to be better than SWA!

Amen,
Gup
 
canyonblue said:
Piggyback my a$$, did UAL or DAL keep those rates? It only works if you can piggyback off someone who could hold the payscale, UAL and DAL didn't do sh#t as far as that goes. You must be a friggin kernel with that logic.:puke:
Click to expand...

Wrong. Your initial rate increase was prior to the UAL and DL bankruptcies. That is piggybacking. After that, SWA was still profitable, just like UAL and DL coming out of their BKs, with clean balance sheets. If SWA stays profitable, then how can they take away from that initial bump up thanks again to UAL and DL? Unless there are losses, management has a tough time asking for givebacks.


OYS
 
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could this be a plan that SWA buys the competition AAI, to get control of them to only keep them seperate and take away the competiton with them and then slowly let them fade away?? Isnt that what happened to ATA after SWA bought them? hopefully not
 
ThisistheDream said:
could this be a plan that SWA buys the competition AAI, to get control of them to only keep them seperate and take away the competiton with them and then slowly let them fade away?? Isnt that what happened to ATA after SWA bought them? hopefully not
Click to expand...

The only way to do that is to get rid of the AT planes, like the 717s, and blend the AT 737s in with the SWA planes. Great idea! I know one other airline in the South that would love those 717s....


OYS
 
No responses. Hmmmm...... Truth hurts?


For all the bravado from the boys/girls from Luv, one would think they have been an industry leader in pay/benefits for years. The truth is only since Q1 of 2004 did they go above the industry. It took 4 legacies in ch11 for that to occur. Looking back to Q1 2001 luv was a drag on the industry, somewhere between a good regional and the legacies. The chart starts at Q1 2001 but my guess is the "southwest effect" was even more pronounced (read, bottom feeder wages/benefits) the first 18 years. Keep in mind that in the early 90s most legacies were under concessionary contracts and luv still lagged.


http://www.swapaluv.com/wp-content/u...1/pilotpay.jpg
 
On another note. Have a couple of close friends at luv hired in the mid to late 90s. They say the are in the top 30%, but I don't have a way to verify it. They feel relative seniority starting around 94-95 would be acceptable to them. Worse case they say is staple the capts below sw capts and fo's the same. Both are getting sick of the arrogance of the junior fo's they fly with.
 
Cobraair75drvr said:
On another note. Have a couple of close friends at luv hired in the mid to late 90s. They say the are in the top 30%, but I don't have a way to verify it. They feel relative seniority starting around 94-95 would be acceptable to them. Worse case they say is staple the capts below sw capts and fo's the same. Both are getting sick of the arrogance of the junior fo's they fly with.
Click to expand...

I can see what kind of response you are trying to get. It's not going to happen. Sorry bro! We will leave that to our unions. Your last sentence is not true.
 
Nah. Just giving another side. Not all feel the same as the junior capts and fos..

PS. How come none of the internet warriors can address my other post?
 
Yep. The others are junior capts. and fo's. Of course they have a different opinion. They have a different viewpoint on swa. They got hired as swa was by default (read ch 11s) at or near the top. They have a very small timeframe on which to reflect. The more senior ones realize that fortunes come and go, and that except for the last 5 years sw and swapa have been a drag on the profession.
 
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Cobraair75drvr said:
No responses. Hmmmm...... Truth hurts?

For all the bravado from the boys/girls from Luv, one would think they have been an industry leader in pay/benefits for years. The truth is only since Q1 of 2004 did they go above the industry. It took 4 legacies in ch11 for that to occur. Looking back to Q1 2001 luv was a drag on the industry, somewhere between a good regional and the legacies. The chart starts at Q1 2001 but my guess is the "southwest effect" was even more pronounced (read, bottom feeder wages/benefits) the first 18 years. Keep in mind that in the early 90s most legacies were under concessionary contracts and luv still lagged.


http://www.swapaluv.com/wp-content/u...1/pilotpay.jpg
Click to expand...

Okay, you've goaded a response out of one of us (though I don't know why I even bother.)

When are you Delta boys going to stop living in the past and start focusing on the here & now? Yes, we lagged you and most legacies until 2004. SINCE THEN, we have continued to improve our pay, tighten our scope, and improve our retirement plan. What about you? I'm sure I'm over-simplifying here and I'm standing by to be corrected, but with the Delta/NWA JCBA (your first opportunity to "take it back"), my impression is of a contract that made minuscule gains in pay, and gave away even more scope (i.e. more 70ish seat RJs).

So going forward, when are YOU gonna "take it back?" When are YOU going to get YOUR 737NG rates above ours? When are YOU going to get the RJ genie back into his bottle of SCOPE? We are CURRENTLY besting you by a wide margin in both these areas...hence we're NOT the problem anymore, we're part of the solution FOR THE PROFESSION. When are YOU going to make a NEW contribution TO THE PROFESSION by setting the "bar" for a while?

When you have accomplished these things, you will have a legitimate gripe about SWA and SWAPA. Until then, please just STFU and go enjoy your industry-leading merger.
 
On another note. Have a couple of close friends at luv hired in the mid to late 90s. They say the are in the top 30%, but I don't have a way to verify it. They feel relative seniority starting around 94-95 would be acceptable to them. Worse case they say is staple the capts below sw capts and fo's the same. Both are getting sick of the arrogance of the junior fo's they fly with.
Click to expand...

Doubt it....
 
So going forward, when are YOU gonna "take it back?" When are YOU going to get YOUR 737NG rates above ours? When are YOU going to get the RJ genie back into his bottle of SCOPE?

They are too busy on the PFT thing.
 
texman said:
Oh I see. Typing a little to fast. So when did the grammar police hijack this thread? Oh well. I am sure you got the point.
Click to expand...



It wasn't about the grammar ... for the most part anyway. :)

The logic and analysis was full of holes. I'm not going to go through the essay and pull it apart. It is disappointing that you don't understand a lot about the Airline that is going to play a part in your future.

If you understood the relative worth of AirTran then you may be a little happier with the situation.

Cheers
 
Dicko, if I buy you a beer will you drink it instead of typing? Please? ;)

I love ya, buddy, but everyone needs to take a step back and let Jack and the boys handle it. The Southwest guys and gals, for the most part, are doing so, and we need to also.

So whaddaya say? :D
 
dicko said:
It wasn't about the grammar ... for the most part anyway. :)

The logic and analysis was full of holes. I'm not going to go through the essay and pull it apart. It is disappointing that you don't understand a lot about the Airline that is going to play a part in your future.

If you understood the relative worth of AirTran then you may be a little happier with the situation.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Trust me I do. I think the AT is a positive thing, as a whole. It isn't just about us pilots. It's about the 43,000 family members we are about to become. If you have been keeping up with my post for the past couple months, you can see. I don't want ALPA to burn down the house, and bite the hand that is about to feed them.
 
Lear70 said:
Dicko, if I buy you a beer will you drink it instead of typing? Please? ;)

I love ya, buddy, but everyone needs to take a step back and let Jack and the boys handle it. The Southwest guys and gals, for the most part, are doing so, and we need to also.

So whaddaya say? :D
Click to expand...


What do I say ? I say you handled that a little poorly and using the wrong medium. ;)

My post was not offensive nor did it involve the SLI. I didn't goad Tex.

I talked to one of "Jacks boys" five days ago about this specifically. He had every opportunity to say what you just did. He didn't. Perhaps things have changed since then.

I do hear what you're saying. If you'd like to talk to me perhaps a PM or email would be more appropriate.

Cheers,
 
texman said:
Trust me I do. I think the AT is a positive thing, as a whole. It isn't just about us pilots. It's about the 43,000 family members we are about to become. If you have been keeping up with my post for the past couple months, you can see. I don't want ALPA to burn down the house, and bite the hand that is about to feed them.
Click to expand...


I completely agree with everything you've said. Thanks.
 
I wasn't saying you're being offensive, and didn't mean to insinuate anything, just trying to keep things from escalating again just when everyone is starting to chill a bit.

Guess I could have sent a PM, didn't mean to offend. :beer:
 
10 year AirTran pilot $155/hr

10 year Southwest pilot $144/hr



Go to arbitration immediately! No " Southwest Seat Grab"
 
We have been leaders in pay, benefits and workrules for over 75 years. The last 10 have not been anything to be proud of. We (all legacies) especially Dal/Nwa have been particuarly weak dicked. To be continued: Crying baby.



StopNTSing said:
Okay, you've goaded a response out of one of us (though I don't know why I even bother.)

When are you Delta boys going to stop living in the past and start focusing on the here & now? Yes, we lagged you and most legacies until 2004. SINCE THEN, we have continued to improve our pay, tighten our scope, and improve our retirement plan. What about you? I'm sure I'm over-simplifying here and I'm standing by to be corrected, but with the Delta/NWA JCBA (your first opportunity to "take it back"), my impression is of a contract that made minuscule gains in pay, and gave away even more scope (i.e. more 70ish seat RJs).

So going forward, when are YOU gonna "take it back?" When are YOU going to get YOUR 737NG rates above ours? When are YOU going to get the RJ genie back into his bottle of SCOPE? We are CURRENTLY besting you by a wide margin in both these areas...hence we're NOT the problem anymore, we're part of the solution FOR THE PROFESSION. When are YOU going to make a NEW contribution TO THE PROFESSION by setting the "bar" for a while?

When you have accomplished these things, you will have a legitimate gripe about SWA and SWAPA. Until then, please just STFU and go enjoy your industry-leading merger.
Click to expand...
 

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