SWAPA has a transition agreement

[Secret Squirrel]

As you guys like to say, we will not be a part of your CBA. Somebody you Code share with will be code sharing/subcontracting with somebody. What does your contract say? Who specifically is bound by your agreement? The only restrictions on Airtran in the transition agreement are on how we "Airtran" can't get airplanes. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but I have a hard time believing that our management fought so hard for this in our contract when they knew this deal was coming down the line.

 

[dicko]

Well that's just great, guy! If we get integrated, then what the heck will I do with all the "Guadalupe Holdings" T-Shirts, stickers, plastic wings, plush toys and other assorted merchandise I ordered! With all your wishing for a fair and equitable integration, did you ever consider us shameless profiteers?!?!

Indeed. A dark day.

PCL128 had a "Guadalupe Holdings" tramp stamp applied last week. It sits proudly beside the "We are ALPA" tattoo. They are linked tastefully with chicken wings.

Sadly, many have been affected.

 

[GuppyWN]

There is absolutely ZERO domestic codeshare allowed in our contract. Yours will have to go bye bye.

The only codeshare allowed is "near international" and it is capped at 4% of our ASM's. That's not a small number but it is fairly restrictive. There is no restriction on third party codeshare. Do you have an example of how this could go wrong?

I suppose if we operate under separate CBA's then whatever is allowed under yours COULD be used against us but that would be a mighty poke in the eye.

Gup

 

[dicko]

There is absolutely ZERO domestic codeshare allowed in our contract. Yours will have to go bye bye.

The only codeshare allowed is "near international" and it is capped at 4% of our ASM's. That's not a small number but it is fairly restrictive. There is no restriction on third party codeshare. Do you have an example of how this could go wrong?

I suppose if we operate under separate CBA's then whatever is allowed under yours COULD be used against us but that would be a mighty poke in the eye.

Gup

Gup,

You don't think an ALPA airline like AirTran would allow fleets of RJ's. Do you ?

 

[maxthrottle]

Help me understand the AT position here. Someone from AT please clarify. Drop the emotion, please. As I understand it AT brings a bunch of folks, many who have applied to SWA or had apps in, and desire to reap the benefits of the SWA pilot CBA for the greatly improved wage rates, and benefits in the pending merger. In addition they would like to also retain their CA seats, which could for many be another significant chunk of change. And they want to do so at the expense of the existing SWA pilots, most of whom could have worked at AT but rather went through the rather lengthy process of getting hired at SWA. Even some AT folks left to go to SWA, indicating how much better they thought of the organization. But when SWA tries to put some protections in place, which seem reasonable, AT calls them SWA a-holes for putting up resistance in this apparent equity grab. So I'm curious. Which do AT really prefer, the seats or the CBA pay rates? I'm having a hard time getting my brain around the belief, that AT really seeks both. How about they get a choice. The CBA or you keep your seat with the old rates, until all the SWA FO's have upgraded. Surely there must be some give in there.

 

[Lear70]

You make it sound like the pilots of SWA don't want to single engine taxi. WE DO! Everyone since the beginning of time has ran the numbers and can see the cost savings if we did it. But until you convince the head honchos in FLT OPS to make the change, it doesn't happen. I sure hope some of your procedures make it into our book (as long as stuff comes out of our book) but I'm not holding my breath.

Cheers!

I didn't mean to insinuate that you didn't, I was just responding to one of your posters saying we were slow taxiing and wasting time by single-engine taxiing and having to run multiple checklists, etc. when that's just not the case.

I'm sure that your pilots, just like ours, are all about doing things efficiently and saving the company money, as long as it's done safely.

:beer:

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I'm out too...It's probably the best...I agree with what the GUP sez ...see you on the other side when we are all SWA Pilots...

 

[fletch717]

Q

Help me understand the AT position here. Someone from AT please clarify. Drop the emotion, please. As I understand it AT brings a bunch of folks, many who have applied to SWA or had apps in, and desire to reap the benefits of the SWA pilot CBA for the greatly improved wage rates, and benefits in the pending merger. In addition they would like to also retain their CA seats, which could for many be another significant chunk of change. And they want to do so at the expense of the existing SWA pilots, most of whom could have worked at AT but rather went through the rather lengthy process of getting hired at SWA. Even some AT folks left to go to SWA, indicating how much better they thought of the organization. But when SWA tries to put some protections in place, which seem reasonable, AT calls them SWA a-holes for putting up resistance in this apparent equity grab. So I'm curious. Which do AT really prefer, the seats or the CBA pay rates? I'm having a hard time getting my brain around the belief, that AT really seeks both. How about they get a choice. The CBA or you keep your seat with the old rates, until all the SWA FO's have upgraded. Surely there must be some give in there.

" could have worked at AirTran but chose the lengthy process of getting hired at southwest." So let me get this straight, you could have showed up a the Airtran training center walked in and had a job? But instead choose to fill out an application, interview and be placed in a hiring pool which is a more lengthy process than just walking in the door and stating you are here and ready for class.

25 years ago everybody wanted to work for united and american, if you said you were at Southwest most people said "who". Just hope that your airline career is at or near the top because when it changes, and It will change in the next 25 years you might be answering your own question.

 

[vance]

Famous last words

To my future Tranny bro's - See you "on the other side."

Until then it's time for me to (finally) put a sock in it.

Gup

To Gup and all the SWAPA members who can't keep a lid on these discussions (no matter how many times you promise),

Is it really worth it to flame, insinuate, dig deeper, explain, educate, posture, promise, B.S.... your way through issues which are better left to our union? Can you guys just swap #'s and get a daily chat on all the opinions and leave the productive work to our elected reps and committee members? A lot of folks (on both sides) have a lot riding on this deal (obviously including yourselves) and it's painfully obvious that self-control isn't within the realm of possibility. I'm beggin' ya PLEASE. Shut yer yap on this topic for good.

Thanks for the consideration (even if it only lasts an hour),

A Junior FO

 

[SWA/FO]

Blah blah blah....... Nothing to see here. If oil don't settle down it might be bad for all.

 

[maxthrottle]

Fletch- I apologize if I oversimplified. I have friends at both AT and SWA. All tell me SWA has a tougher hiring process, but much better pay and benefits. I didn't mean to imply one could walk in the door at AT and get a job. You really didn't respond to the question, but rather got focused on what are somewhat irrelevant details. I asked ahead of time to refrain from the emotion. I'm curious what does the AT membership consider fair?

 

[fletch717]

Everyone has their own definition of what is fair. In the end I believe a lot of people won't be happy, on both sides. Luckily I learned not to let money or other people determine my happiness. I will accept whatever is decided and move forward. Having been on a few seniority lists, a few numbers just aren't worth losing sleep over. I leave that to the guys who want to sue for 10 places higher in a nearly 8,000 pilot list. After it's all said and done you have to ask yourself do I want to build a great company or do we want to act like the usair east and west pilots?

FWIW 15 years ago the SWA hiring process wasn't difficult or lengthy. Fortunes come and go. You are doing well now, I hope it continues. If the only change is the AT deal in your career you will be lucky.

 

[dragontamer]

I agree with Vance. Why are SWA guys jumping on this public forum with "the latest?" Be smart guys and start a discussion on SE taxi or something else. Let's let our union do it's job in private or public as it decides.

 

[canyonblue]

Scuttlebutt is that our single engine taxi procedure is the first change you guys might make to save some $$$. Enjoy!

Make sure you guys mention that everyday you are in Dallas, let me know how it pans out. They love input on how you did things at "your other" airline.

 

[canyonblue]

Well that's just great, guy! If we get integrated, then what the heck will I do with all the "Guadalupe Holdings" T-Shirts, stickers, plastic wings, plush toys and other assorted merchandise I ordered! With all your wishing for a fair and equitable integration, did you ever consider us shameless profiteers?!?!

That's funny, I'm wondering what to do with all my "I was HIRED, I wasn't Acquired" T-Shirts, stickers, plastic wings, plush toys and other assorted merchandise I ordered!

 

[dh82dvr]

a big number in your possible paycheck does not do you much good if you get $hitty seniority and end up on the street.

 

[StopNTSing]

Make sure you guys mention that everyday you are in Dallas, let me know how it pans out. They love input on how you did things at "your other" airline.

While I agree with your statement as it applies to new hires, it's a completely different situation when "your other airline" just got absorbed into SWA.

Maybe the ATN dudes can get the gear pins off our walk-arounds too while they're at it. :beer:

 

[Lear70]

Maybe the ATN dudes can get the gear pins off our walk-arounds too while they're at it. :beer:

Be glad to.

I'll do it however they want, as long as it's safe. Just think saving money is a GOOD thing.

 

[Cometman]

Be glad to.

I'll do it however they want, as long as it's safe. Just think saving money is a GOOD thing.

You will do it anyway they want as long as it is safe? Well, that is very nice of you. You will do what they tell you and like it. Who are you to decide if it is safe? You already have a reputation so I would just sit back and keep quiet.

 

[jetman1115]

"FWIW 15 years ago the SWA hiring process wasn't difficult or lengthy."


15 years ago SWA hired 1 in 6 applicants.