To ALL UNITED pilots courtesy of ALL UAX carriers and their pilots

[waveflyer]

I'll just say that j/s's worked a LOT better when the PIC handled it. Gate agents have had way too much authority in this issue.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Once again Joe, I'm not debating the issue that this needs to be fixed. I'm stating that the method should be seen as unacceptable.

I don't care if mainline pilots would have issued an ultimatum if the issue were reversed or not. I would disagree with that also. Are we all to begin threatening each other's jumpseats for every issue?

Than FIX it....Prove that ALPA can actually act like a union....Is it capabale for ALPA to do the right thing?

 

[JoeMerchant]

The jobs at the express carrier exist at the pleasure of the mainline carrier. The mainline carrier really controls not only the seats in back, but the jumpseats, the driver's seats, etc.... That's the reality.

This is the attitude that prevails at the mainline and at ALPA national....Looks like war to me.....

Hey pipe....my job doesn't exist at your pleasure and you don't control $h!t...........

If this doesn't get fixed, I will start denying UAL jumpseaters also....

 

[JoeMerchant]

No. I am not interested. I never flew for the commuters in the first place because I felt the pay and work rules were ridiculous and I will not do so now.

If I can't win a basketball game, I don't ask for a chance to play in the Special Olympics. If I lose, I lose -- and it's done. I'll just move on.

PIPE

Who do you work for now?

 

[JoeMerchant]

But we are not talking about other carriers are we? We are talking about OO pilots. And I am saying that UAL pilots recognize that you snubbed ALPA... and now you want something from them...

I get the impression that being non union is a one way street for you: IOW you want the benefits when it suits you, but when it doesn't then its not fair and not right...

I don't have the long term SA on this... why are the UAL pilots obligated to help? Isn't this a OO/UAL management issue?

Rez....this letter was also signed by ALPA JSC and Teamsters JSC.....This isn't about being union or non-union...

This is exactly the reason Skywest didn't join ALPA in the first place....You ALPA cheerleaders defend ALPA's bad behavior and then blame the pilots that stand up to ALPA's bad behavior.....

Why do you United folks think you should have priority on UAX airplanes?

 

[strega7]

IOW, if you control your jumpseat, then write your own computer code with your priority list..for the OO jumpseat. When pilots show up to j/s on OO then have the gate agent access your own in house program. And/or us PIC authority.[/qoute]

I do control the use of the jumpseat on my aircraft. All the way up to denying an FAA inspector or Secret Service member if I think that I could justify it. We only use the Apollo computer right now to sort jumpseat requests because that has, for the most part, worked for everyone in past. Now because of a request from the UAL MEC to attain a "higher" than agreed to priority on a few UAX carriers, the other UAX pilots have been placed at a disadvantage on their own aircraft.

If this is not resovled by Aug 1st, it would be the easiest thing to take your suggestion and start a new standalone jumpseat procedure for UAX flights in the UAL system. Simply have the agent print an OMC card for everyone and send them all to the captain. Easy as pie! All pilots would be aware of this new program and would be on the "correct" footing while meeting the PIC. If the UAL guy can hold a non-rev seat in the back, great! If it's full, the Captain will decide who will ride up front.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Than FIX it....Prove that ALPA can actually act like a union....Is it capabale for ALPA to do the right thing?

Joe, I didn't think I'd actually have to say this...I am not really the UAL MEC Chairman. I cannot personally do anything what-so-ever to fix this situation. But, I admire your ridiculous attempt to once again blame ALPA national for a local problem between a few carriers (only 2 of which are in ALPA).

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, I didn't think I'd actually have to say this...I am not really the UAL MEC Chairman. I cannot personally do anything what-so-ever to fix this situation. But, I admire your ridiculous attempt to once again blame ALPA national for a local problem between a few carriers (only 2 of which are in ALPA).

You said it needs to be fixed....The UAX pilots have been trying for years....Why hasn't it? What needs to be done? Would the mainline pilots stand being treated as second class citizens on their own airplanes?

I don't care who is ALPA and who isn't....but this independant group is showing more leadership than I have ever seen out of ALPA....

 

[SaturnPilot]

You said it needs to be fixed....The UAX pilots have been trying for years....Why hasn't it? What needs to be done?

I'll try to go back and take a look at my notes from the past two years of this argument that neither you nor I were parties of and let you know why this particular issue has not yet been fixed and what needs to be done from here in order to fix it. There's a lot of details in those notes from the conversations I have never had with the jumpseat coordinators of each airline, so it may take some time. I'll get back to you on that.

Would the mainline pilots stand being treated as second class citizens on their own airplanes?

again, not saying that ANYBODY should stand for this...perhaps you should go back and read my first post on this thread.

I don't care who is ALPA and who isn't....but this independant group is showing more leadership than I have ever seen out of ALPA....

One letter is more leadership than you have ever seen out of ALPA, huh? Does that include your terms in office as part of ALPA leadership?

 

[PCL_128]

I'll try to go back and take a look at my notes from the past two years of this argument that neither you nor I were parties of and let you know why this particular issue has not yet been fixed and what needs to be done from here in order to fix it. There's a lot of details in those notes from the conversations I have never had with the jumpseat coordinators of each airline, so it may take some time. I'll get back to you on that.

Now that's some beautiful use of sarcasm right there.

One letter is more leadership than you have ever seen out of ALPA, huh? Does that include your terms in office as part of ALPA leadership?

Ohhh, snap! Don't bother Joey with real leadership. He was too busy stealing meeting minutes and refusing to do his job when he was in office.

 

[Fly2AK]

IOW, if you control your jumpseat, then write your own computer code with your priority list..for the OO jumpseat. When pilots show up to j/s on OO then have the gate agent access your own in house program. And/or us PIC authority.[/qoute]

I do control the use of the jumpseat on my aircraft. All the way up to denying an FAA inspector or Secret Service member if I think that I could justify it. We only use the Apollo computer right now to sort jumpseat requests because that has, for the most part, worked for everyone in past. Now because of a request from the UAL MEC to attain a "higher" than agreed to priority on a few UAX carriers, the other UAX pilots have been placed at a disadvantage on their own aircraft.

If this is not resovled by Aug 1st, it would be the easiest thing to take your suggestion and start a new standalone jumpseat procedure for UAX flights in the UAL system. Simply have the agent print an OMC card for everyone and send them all to the captain. Easy as pie! All pilots would be aware of this new program and would be on the "correct" footing while meeting the PIC. If the UAL guy can hold a non-rev seat in the back, great! If it's full, the Captain will decide who will ride up front.

When did UAL MEC ask to have higher priority on UAX aircraft? Where is your documentation or proof that the MEC asked for priority over UAX pilots on UAX aircraft? If this is true then why was it approved?

 

[Shrek]

DOesn't look good after reading the LEC update yesterday.

Jumpseat War possibilty just went up a few notches.

 

[pipe]

This is the attitude that prevails at the mainline and at ALPA national....Looks like war to me.....

Hey pipe....my job doesn't exist at your pleasure and you don't control $h!t...........

If this doesn't get fixed, I will start denying UAL jumpseaters also....

I didn't say it existed at my pleasure -- didn't even imply that. It does exist at the pleasure of the mainline carrier - you cannot reasonably argue that point. Hell, the jobs of the mainline pilots exist at the pleasure of the mainline carrier. Why is it so hard for you to accept that your employer is a SUBcontractor of another employer?

Whatever color the sky is in your world, I can promise you that sh!t still rolls downhill and will continue to do so until the end of time.

PIPE

 

[strega7]

When did UAL MEC ask to have higher priority on UAX aircraft? Where is your documentation or proof that the MEC asked for priority over UAX pilots on UAX aircraft? If this is true then why was it approved?

1. Over a year ago.
2. Proof is that he got it at TSA and GoJet(hence the K1 status). Documents show the MEC wanted UAL pilots to go next after company pilots, but before everyone else.
3. It was approved because he asked for it from all the carriers, UAL management asked TSA and GoJet's management and they said fine with us. The other UAX carriers said "No". Now they are K2 and L status.

All of this is fine. But the software UAL is using (that the MEC request changed) is not recognizing that the different UAX carriers are NOT a mainline flight. It has the "bonus effect" of getting some UAL pilots into the jumpseat on some UAX flights that they would otherwise be bummed by an online company pilot.

If I were the MEC I'd be dragging my feet also because this doesn't hurt any mainline guys. If it only affects UAX pilots, oh well. However if/when he starts getting phone calls from his pilots that didn't make it home because of this, he may then be "motivated" to help fix it. Well see.

 

[Flyerdan]

1. Over a year ago.
2. Proof is that he got it at TSA and GoJet(hence the K1 status). Documents show the MEC wanted UAL pilots to go next after company pilots, but before everyone else.
3. It was approved because he asked for it from all the carriers, UAL management asked TSA and GoJet's management and they said fine with us. The other UAX carriers said "No". Now they are K2 and L status.

All of this is fine. But the software UAL is using (that the MEC request changed) is not recognizing that the different UAX carriers are NOT a mainline flight. It has the "bonus effect" of getting some UAL pilots into the jumpseat on some UAX flights that they would otherwise be bummed by an online company pilot.

If I were the MEC I'd be dragging my feet also because this doesn't hurt any mainline guys. If it only affects UAX pilots, oh well. However if/when he starts getting phone calls from his pilots that didn't make it home because of this, he may then be "motivated" to help fix it. Well see.

This stuff is really not relevant. Seems everyone agrees that there is a problem but would rather debate about the history of the issue instead of working to resolve the issue itself.

If you are a UAL pilot and have communicated to your MEC to fix it please speak up.