NWA/DAL solving the seniority issue

[MJ42]

I think it is a relevant statement about his career expectations.

Don't count on expectations that people tell you in indoc. We were told that we would be the richest on our block, and that it would be the last job we would ever have back in my indoc in '96. Guess what? A lot has changed since then. Get used to it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Where's the humility, oh yeah I forgot, everyone spouts off here. I guess your egos need to be pacified somehow. Take some advice from GL about career expectations. Also...there are those who have been furloughed(i.e. me and many others on here) and those who will be furloughed, keep that in mind. I hope it never happens to those of you that mouth off, it's a horrible feeling.

You must need to deflate your head as you walk through the 767er cockpit door. Check yourself, Cock (nice avtar though).

As for the merger, I hope for a content pilot group on both sides if it happens.

 

[Noserider76]

My prediction is these guys try and lock in contract gains and agree to send this thing to arbitration since one side doesn't want any responsibility for a negotiated settlement.

 

[swingtrader]

Fin, both cocknbull and superpilot each have career expectations. That is what everyone has when they start out at a new job. The future is the unknown/unpredictable. The present is that cocknbull is on a WB and superpilot is most likely on a NB. This argument is only relevant for the here-an- now. The General said it earlier about their Mngmt could screw everything up later. That holds true for ALL airlines.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I have a novel concept. Why don't all of us just stfu with rumors and insults about who has the better career expectations. This is a MERGER of equals not an AQUISISTION. None of us know the details of which side asked for what. If the NWA merger comm. did ask for doh(which I find hard to believe with our recent history of being reasonable) than the nwa guys have some crow to eat. If the DAL comm. came out with a take it, we are saving you type offer the crow goes to you. And if this falls apart due to the pilots, good luck to y'all with your next dance mate(UAL) I am sure they will fall over backwards at the generous offer of relative seniority.

Fin, both cocknbull and superpilot each have career expectations. That is what everyone has when they start out at a new job. The future is the unknown/unpredictable. The present is that cocknbull is on a WB and superpilot is most likely on a NB. This argument is only relevant for the here-an- now. The General said it earlier about their Mngmt could screw everything up later. That holds true for ALL airlines.

 

[JOPILOT]

My prediction is these guys try and lock in contract gains and agree to send this thing to arbitration since one side doesn't want any responsibility for a negotiated settlement.

I am not sure that one is possible without the other, and this is what management may be banking on as well. Regardless if the FNG wants this or not, if our union leaders can't figure this out, there will be a merge without any of the good contract improvements and we will all be wishing we could go back in time. JP

 

[NuGuy]

My prediction is these guys try and lock in contract gains and agree to send this thing to arbitration since one side doesn't want any responsibility for a negotiated settlement.

Heyas Nose,


Now here's something we can agree on. Lock in the gains, agree to disagree, and press on.

Nu

 

[Noserider76]

I am not sure that one is possible without the other, and this is what management may be banking on as well. Regardless if the FNG wants this or not, if our union leaders can't figure this out, there will be a merge without any of the good contract improvements and we will all be wishing we could go back in time. JP

Just a guess on my part. Not sure what management has to gain by offering the contract improvements without a negotiated settlement except to promote harmony in the combined group. I do think they wanted to avoid fences but an arbitrated decision seems almost certain to have them. What'll we call it, blue book, red book?

It's easy to forget here that the merger guys have a very difficult job. They're pretty much in uncharted territory with the largest airline merger ever attempted, incompatible fleets, varied historical backgrounds, and a completely different corporate culture. A lot of resposibilty to put on any employee group to say the least.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Funny how you guys write that you can not count on "career expectations" while trying to create phantom slots for alleged upcoming retirements.

I'd say a guy already flying the equipment, holding block, with new hires coming in underneath him, has pretty a reasonable expectation that he will continue flying his widebody international seat for the forseeable future.

Maybe what I should write is "Preserve Status Quo." But for some reason NWA pilots find a Delta FNG wanting to preserve the base and equipment he already operates as offensive and arrogant.

Fortunately an arbitrator would likely find merit in "status quo." The fact that it takes 13 to 15 years at NWA to obtain the status a Delta new hire enjoys is a problem for the NWA's esteemed arbitration team to tackle. Going against status quo is always an uphill battle.

Perhaps the Delta pilots will be huge beneficiaries of an arbitration.

 

[MJ42]

Funny how you guys write that you can not count on "career expectations" while trying to create phantom slots for alleged upcoming retirements.

I'd say a guy already flying the equipment, holding block, with new hires coming in underneath him, has pretty a reasonable expectation that he will continue flying his widebody international seat for the forseeable future.

Maybe what I should write is "Preserve Status Quo." But for some reason NWA pilots find a Delta FNG wanting to preserve the base and equipment he already operates as offensive and arrogant.

Fortunately an arbitrator would likely find merit in "status quo." The fact that it takes 13 to 15 years at NWA to obtain the status a Delta new hire enjoys is a problem for the NWA's esteemed arbitration team to tackle. But going against status quo is going to be an uphill battle.

Way off base Fins. I quote your Generals thoughts on career expectations. I don't want any DAL newbies base or equipment. I find the ATTITUDE of his(Cocks) post arrogant.

As a stand alone carrier, I'd move up pretty quick in the next few years. "Phantom retirements", really? I guarantee their will be lots NWA retirements over the next several years(unless SWA gets the retirement age changed to 70 ) So, the question is...what is fair for both pilot groups?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I guess the million dollar question is how long is DAL going to keep hiring 500+/yr? Do you really think they won't have to stop/furlough within the next year with 100+ oil? And even if they don't furlough the music will stop once they get the staffing caught up and with no retirements in the next 10 years or so one better enjoy their posistion. Now throw a merger with NW or even CAL into the mix, who have not had the begining of their retirements yet and with a relative seniority integration and no fences the DAL pilots get continued upward movement at the expense of the other pilot group. Seriously, I don't blame you for trying but you can't blame us for trying to protect our movement. I am NOT for doh unless there is 20 yr fences which would protect us in the first 10 or so years and y'all in the last 10 or so. Now, we all know the company does not want this, so there will have to be some form of length of service/relative seniority to equally piss all of us off and that will probably be fair.

Funny how you guys write that you can not count on "career expectations" while trying to create phantom slots for alleged upcoming retirements.

I'd say a guy already flying the equipment, holding block, with new hires coming in underneath him, has pretty a reasonable expectation that he will continue flying his widebody international seat for the forseeable future.

Maybe what I should write is "Preserve Status Quo." But for some reason NWA pilots find a Delta FNG wanting to preserve the base and equipment he already operates as offensive and arrogant.

Fortunately an arbitrator would likely find merit in "status quo." The fact that it takes 13 to 15 years at NWA to obtain the status a Delta new hire enjoys is a problem for the NWA's esteemed arbitration team to tackle. But going against status quo is going to be an uphill battle.