XJT forces 47 PAX to sleep aboard aircraft in Rochester, MN?

[JohnnyP]

....

In addition, I have never encountered a so called "line of thunderstorms" that I couldn't thread my way through.

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So you've never had that last little clear alley way in the red/yellow band close up on you in a split second?....Sounds like in all your "freight doggin" you never really came around much T-storm activity. Remember your not back in your najavo flying boxes, so at some point giving the pax a smooth ride when conditions permit is part of your job there, skipper. And it might involve, gasp, a deviation.

Not just bombing through anything thats not painting red because you think your a "*************************" because thats how you did it back in your piston days blasting off into anything.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Kidnapping?

I can understand how the crew had their hands tied by thier POS ops and management support teams.

Now why didn't the crew offer to open the main cabin door, have the stairs out then turn their backs. Who then walks off it's on them. It would have been real funny if the crew fatigued, packed up and got off themselves.

But I wonder if this falls under the form of kidnapping?

From the article: Kristy Nicholas, a spokeswoman for ExpressJet Airlines, said passengers couldn't go to the Rochester terminal to wait out the storms because they would have needed to redo their security screening and screeners had gone home.

The airport's manager, Steven Leqve, said that wasn't true. Leqve said passengers could have waited in a secure area until their plane was cleared to leave.
"This is not an airport issue. This is an airline issue," he said.
The Rochester airport took in another diverted flight, a Northwest plane from Phoenix, just before Flight 2816 landed. The more than 50 passengers on that plane were placed on a bus and made it to Minneapolis by 1:30 a.m. Leqve said the Delta manager in Rochester offered space on the bus to Continental, which declined.

Don't know the law that may apply well enough and how it may apply here. A person(s) held against their will long after the service they paid for didn't happen. Same person(s) also had the chance to deplane and may not have been informed about the secure area and/or the offer to ride on a bus. Not given the choice to make their own decision. The crime of unlawfully seizing and carrying away a person by force or Fraud, or seizing and detaining a person against his or her will with an intent to carry that person away at a later time.
The law of kidnapping is difficult to define with precision because it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Most state and federal kidnapping statutes define the term kidnapping vaguely, and courts fill in the details. Held against their will it sure sounds like. Sounds like grounds for kidnapping to me.

Regardless, something must be done to prevent this sort of negative experience from happening again.

I thought it was funny how CAL just tossed Express under the bus, backed up and ran them over again for good measure. Nice job CAL!!! I guess CAL has enough negative issues hitting the news this year that they are making it clear who's to blame.

 

[XPOO]

I thought close to the same thing, if it's not considered kidnapping, then it's at least being held hostage.

 

[xjgearbtch]

What time did this diversion take place? It seems as if it were late night. Unless there was a steady state thunderstorm stalled over MSP for quite a while, which is unlikely, how long did they hold before diverted to RST? And how much hold fuel did they have? Late at night there shouldn't have been that many aircraft holding in front them. In addition, I have never encountered a so called "line of thunderstorms" that I couldn't thread my way through.

One of the problems with these RJ kids is that they have only ever flown for the regionals aside from some fair weather flight instructing. And they have never experienced the kind of weather a freight dawg has likely encountered many times over in the middle of night. It never ceases to amaze me how many times, while flying through some areas of weather, ATC asks me how the ride is, or what the flight conditions are at my location, because 90% of everyone else had been diverting. And usually the ride is acceptable! Too many people diverting around friggin clouds! And then our joke of an ATC system gets overburdened with aircraft off route and on headings, then come the holds, edcts, and ground stops! Many people here have suggested growing balls, and I agree! Stay out of the red and yellow and you'll be no worse for wear. Trust me, I'm still alive, and I don't fly through the kind of stuff I did when I was a freight dawg.

Freight who do you fly for? I'll never ship with your company. I was flying that night. There was a very long line of storms ..... Oh and a tornado touched down in the west metro. You go ahead and pick your way through that. This "regional kid" will avoid those areas. The typecasting of regional pilots shows your ignorance. This is one crews decision and it doesn't appropriately reflect the sound and safe decisions made by crews everyday.

 

[lowspeed]

What time did this diversion take place? It seems as if it were late night. Unless there was a steady state thunderstorm stalled over MSP for quite a while, which is unlikely, how long did they hold before diverted to RST? And how much hold fuel did they have? Late at night there shouldn't have been that many aircraft holding in front them. In addition, I have never encountered a so called "line of thunderstorms" that I couldn't thread my way through.

One of the problems with these RJ kids is that they have only ever flown for the regionals aside from some fair weather flight instructing. And they have never experienced the kind of weather a freight dawg has likely encountered many times over in the middle of night. It never ceases to amaze me how many times, while flying through some areas of weather, ATC asks me how the ride is, or what the flight conditions are at my location, because 90% of everyone else had been diverting. And usually the ride is acceptable! Too many people diverting around friggin clouds! And then our joke of an ATC system gets overburdened with aircraft off route and on headings, then come the holds, edcts, and ground stops! Many people here have suggested growing balls, and I agree! Stay out of the red and yellow and you'll be no worse for wear. Trust me, I'm still alive, and I don't fly through the kind of stuff I did when I was a freight dawg.

so do you want to be in the back when those "RJ kids" try to gain experience going through that crap. I go around everytime when it is a option, it never hurts and why even take the risk man. For what 10 min that dosent even matter to you because you get paid by the hour. I have gone through enough weather to know that 9 out of 10 times its going to be fine but that 1 out of 10 has taught me that its not worth it. At least these "RJ KIDS" had enough sense to not go through it.

 

[Flyin2low]

The problem was that the cockpit had a crack in it!

 

[rjacobs]

Continental Pays XJT by completion factor!!!!

Completely wrong

We are on a CPA with CAL not a fee for departure contract.

 

[XPOO]

Flying into TS is asking for trouble, and begging to be second-guessed. When in doubt, safety is paramount. However, we are trying to figure out where this issue turned into a six and half hour gaffe.

 

[Baronman]

Extremely unprofessional.

We need older, higher time captains. Not youngsters who can't assert authority and deal with these situations.

FYI the CAPT is over 50yrs old and has been with the airline for over 9 years. Not exactly new. Sure, not 25+ years but not exactly wet behind the ears.

 

[Baronman]

What time did this diversion take place? It seems as if it were late night. Unless there was a steady state thunderstorm stalled over MSP for quite a while, which is unlikely, how long did they hold before diverted to RST? And how much hold fuel did they have? Late at night there shouldn't have been that many aircraft holding in front them. In addition, I have never encountered a so called "line of thunderstorms" that I couldn't thread my way through.

One of the problems with these RJ kids is that they have only ever flown for the regionals aside from some fair weather flight instructing. And they have never experienced the kind of weather a freight dawg has likely encountered many times over in the middle of night. It never ceases to amaze me how many times, while flying through some areas of weather, ATC asks me how the ride is, or what the flight conditions are at my location, because 90% of everyone else had been diverting. And usually the ride is acceptable! Too many people diverting around friggin clouds! And then our joke of an ATC system gets overburdened with aircraft off route and on headings, then come the holds, edcts, and ground stops! Many people here have suggested growing balls, and I agree! Stay out of the red and yellow and you'll be no worse for wear. Trust me, I'm still alive, and I don't fly through the kind of stuff I did when I was a freight dawg.

Here ya' go http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...224Z/KIAH/KRST

The crew timed out, therefore they were obviously at the tail end of a long duty day. So...here you are, it's past midnight, you're been holding for 20 minutes already and there's a steady line of storms between you and MSP.

We don't know what the ATC situation was, but from the looks of it even if they got out of the hold there was still some significant weather up ahead.
But you're presuming that they had the option to procede to the airport!

So now if they don't get into MSP they have to fly back across that crappy wx to the alternate.

Long story short I don't blame them for diverting....And I don't know what happened on the ground. Of course everyone is going to point fingers, "It wasn't my fault," "Not my fault!" and I'm sure the Captain is being told to keep her mouth shut. So that leaves us with lots of people pointing fingers and the one person at the hub of the situation not speaking.

 

[CA1900]

Now why didn't the crew offer to open the main cabin door, have the stairs out then turn their backs...

What stairs?

 

[Yodafly]

dumb move

I find it hard to believe that it was a captain’s decision not to deplane. This kind of situation would be elevated to a high level of management in Expressjet.

That being said any rational pilot would declare an emergency and deplane rather then to kidnap their passengers for that long overnight.

When asked reason for emergency, Crew fatigue, Crew unable to can't keep passengers safe.

 

[XPOO]

According to the FlightAware, I don't see where the dispatcher planned adequately enough to fly AROUND the TS along the route of flight.

 

[rumorhasit]

Completely wrong

We are on a CPA with CAL not a fee for departure contract.

Um no I am not!!! Completion factor is part of the compensation from cal. Or at least it was for nearly the decade I was there!!!!

 

[CA1900]

When asked reason for emergency, Crew fatigue, Crew unable to can't keep passengers safe.

Biohazard from the overflowing lavatory.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

What stairs?

You mean to tel me that POS plane (regardless who drives one) doesn't have self-contained stairs?

I don't fly that thing nor have I ever.

It would have been interesting if there was a medical emergency. That would have gotten the ball rolling to have stairs provided.

 

[rumorhasit]

Completely wrong

We are on a CPA with CAL not a fee for departure contract.

And have u seen the "contract"? Cause I heard it's in the reamsters home safe behind who the second gunman was on the grassy Nol...next to the real reason s.Paylin resigned!!!!!

 

[CA1900]

You mean to tel me that POS plane (regardless who drives one) doesn't have self-contained stairs?

It's an option, just like it is on a 737. As that airline normally hooks up to jetways, the self-contained stairs just get in the way. Other operators that don't often use jetways got them delivered with the integrated stairs.

It would have been interesting if there was a medical emergency. That would have gotten the ball rolling to have stairs provided.

Indeed it would. I can only imagine what fun that was with the overflowing toilets and screaming, tired babies...

 

[brokeflyer]

you get what you pay for...

"they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.....I say let 'em crash"

 

[COOPERVANE]

"they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.....I say let 'em crash"

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue?