Virgin America Revenue...

[Ralph Cramden]

Wave, I hear you loud & clear on the fear of status quo issue. We have a lot of young guys with the mindset of "no way around it, get it over with now" so I am not worried about this tactic. The company traditionally announces the mid year pay raise early in the year, and this year there are rumors coming from management types that we will be brought up to average in order to better compete for pilots and stem the growing attrition. We will see if those rumors are going to pan out, as management themselves have set the expectation level high.

As to you signature line, I disagree! While this year LSU and Bama were 1 for 1 (but the rematch was pretty decisive), last year Auburn ran the table. War Damn Eagle! (and yes, the BCS needs fixing)

 

[Lake Alice]

Which is why I've defended you against fubi, and all others on the union thing- self determination is an important concept in America- but I disagree with your logic.
Just remember that fear of the status quo period is chapter 2 from ford and Harrison - they are very good at always convincing 51% that the time isn't right, and providing just enough carrot to keep you from legitimate representation.

Just a fact or two to point out. A contract does not take 4-5 years. This rhetoric is straight out of the F/H playbook. If you look at the last few contracts signed they were completed in less than 2 years. The organization effort will easily take 1 year but the contract itself is entirely dependent on how well the pilot group and the airline work together.
Jetblue, via, F/H, told the ranks a contract would take 5 years. When asked DIRECTLY why a PEA under the DR would take months yet a contract under a CBA would take 5 years the answer was "thats what ALPA wants".

If VX goes the route of VAPA it's success will be dependent more so on managements desire to negotiate rather than the pilots.

What truly amazed me was our pilots group ability to buy into their false and misleading rhetoric.

 

[MBCP]

The upcoming IPO is terrific leverage to get a contract settled quickly. There is no way Cush wants to IPO with a union contract open. That would decimate the return.

Vote in VAPA and negotiate a piece of the IPO, using the IPO itself to force the company to negotiate.

This talk of $15-25K for FOUNDERS is a JOKE!

 

[Lake Alice]

The upcoming IPO is terrific leverage to get a contract settled quickly. There is no way Cush wants to IPO with a union contract open. That would decimate the return.

Vote in VAPA and negotiate a piece of the IPO, using the IPO itself to force the company to negotiate.

This talk of $15-25K for FOUNDERS is a JOKE!

It may be a joke but it will buy off many of your pilots. Having had your irish check airman on the jumpseat, who's already anti-union, will ensure every new hire you have votes against a union. Our check airman were in a similar position and talk to one of our new hires if you have a chance.

 

[aircombat]

JetBlue pilots pay the highest insurance rates in the industry by far, and have no retirement plan other than a 401k. Their work rules are changed on a whim, and they have ZERO merger or scope protections. Your focus is too narrow. There is a lot more to a CBA than a pay rate.

Their scope protection is not having ALPA on property. The threat of a union is much more powerful than having a union and it's free. Mentioning ALPA with scope protection is laughable if you actually look at the industry.

 

[PCL_128]

The threat of a union is much more powerful than having a union and it's free.

Tell me that after you've been fired without just cause, or your job has been outsourced because you had no scope protections, or you get stapled to the bottom of a list in a merger. Your rhetoric is straight out of the union buster's handbook, and it holds no water.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Deleted for lack of really caring.

 

[pilotpm]

Just a fact or two to point out. A contract does not take 4-5 years. This rhetoric is straight out of the F/H playbook. If you look at the last few contracts signed they were completed in less than 2 years. The organization effort will easily take 1 year but the contract itself is entirely dependent on how well the pilot group and the airline work together.
Jetblue, via, F/H, told the ranks a contract would take 5 years. When asked DIRECTLY why a PEA under the DR would take months yet a contract under a CBA would take 5 years the answer was "thats what ALPA wants".

If VX goes the route of VAPA it's success will be dependent more so on managements desire to negotiate rather than the pilots.

What truly amazed me was our pilots group ability to buy into their false and misleading rhetoric.

Sorry, but I have been a part of a 4 year first ALPA contract negotiation. Also been a part of a 7 year IBT/ALPA second contract negotiation. I do agree that it may take less time at VX. I and others are waiting to see what the latest raise and work rules improvements get us. For now the Co. does not warrant a union. When they deserve it, they will get it. Before the haters jump in with "It's not the Co. but the pilots that deserve it", we will do this on OUR TERMS!

 

[MBCP]

The airline will not IPO until any labor contracts are settled. That is a HUGE incentive to negotiate, and this is the ONLY time in our life time that we will have this kind of leverage.

 

[aircombat]

Tell me that after you've been fired without just cause, or your job has been outsourced because you had no scope protections, or you get stapled to the bottom of a list in a merger. Your rhetoric is straight out of the union buster's handbook, and it holds no water.

I suppose you have many examples of non union airlines that have been stapled or have lost their jobs do to lack of scope. I can list thousands of ALPA pilots that lost their jobs to scope relaxation.