Virgin America Revenue...

[DASHDRIVER]

Seriously,

Is there even moderators on these threads? Every VX thread turns into the same crap. Can't we just make a fubi/NE thread so the rest of us can have adult conversations in peace?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

APC moderators had the decency and maturity to send Fubi on his childish way. Unfortunately that is not the case here on FI.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

It is the goal of the haters to destroy all VA threads. I put the ring leader on ignore and will not respond to him.

That is the only way to stop it. Wish a few of my fellow VA guys would do the same.

 

[mxer]

None of us are down to your level.

 

[ASADFW7]

I cannot keep up with every insult and thread hijack. I apologize for the attack on VA from one specific user. I hope this thread improves, a couple posts have been deleted and infractions given.

 

[NEDude]

Had you been public the "experts" would have been correct years ago.

VX hurts the industry as a whole because of your low pay and benefits.

How many FI "experts" predicted the demise of United? How many predicted the demise of USAirways after the second bankruptcy? There were thousands of "expert" predictions those public companies would die. Yet guess what, they are still here. This is the worst place in the world when it comes to getting good financial information and accurate predictions about the future of airlines. Honestly, I really believe if you were any good at financial analysis you would not be an airline pilot.

As for low pay and benefits hurting the industry, by your own admission you work for a company that has been accused of the same and has been used in court proceedings for lowering the pay of others. You have no place to come here and preach from a soap box.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

Maybe we should just delete this thread and star a fresh one. It been pages since this conversation made any sense. Thank you moderators for stepping in. Some people really do want to have civil conversations around here.

 

[Lake Alice]

How many FI "experts" predicted the demise of United? How many predicted the demise of USAirways after the second bankruptcy? There were thousands of "expert" predictions those public companies would die. Yet guess what, they are still here. This is the worst place in the world when it comes to getting good financial information and accurate predictions about the future of airlines. Honestly, I really believe if you were any good at financial analysis you would not be an airline pilot.

As for low pay and benefits hurting the industry, by your own admission you work for a company that has been accused of the same and has been used in court proceedings for lowering the pay of others. You have no place to come here and preach from a soap box.

FI does not have experts, rather opinions. Financial experts stated United or USair would file CH11 or CH7 IF "this or that" did not happen. The Jamie Bakers of the financial world do not predict absolutes. The financial experts would tell you the benefit VX has right now is not being public. Without shareholders your standards for operating are slightly different than the rest of the industry. If you read your financial reports and not the opinion of the airline you would understand the financial position you are in. Your airline is unable to raise your pay and benefits to an industry standard. The revenue and operating budgets aren't there. You continue to operate based largely in part to cash infusions received due to your airline being private. I'm not saying this is good or bad.
What I am saying is is other airlines are having to use your airlines pay and benefits in their benchmarking. This is the issue at hand. VX cannot afford to operate or pay it's pilots properly and that hurts us all. This is not a knock on you personally but just an industry fact.

Comparatively when Jetblue opened it's door in '01 and after it's pay rates, compared to bankruptcy contracts, were still substantially below average although Jetblue was making record profits and had a share price at $70. Money was never an issue. Today Jetblue has crawled out of the pay cellar though we are still behind industry standard. On a side note my understanding of predatory pricing is not where it should be because the prices Jetblue charged at the beginning should have been illegal. Today things are substantially different.

I'm realistic of where my airline is and has been. I'm a realist, it's a job. If Jetblue, or any airline, could get rid of us tomorrow and employ someone for less money they would. As we say at Jetblue we are a cost unit and nothing else. At one point we were the bane of this industries pilot groups. Today we are not. Also as a public company we have access to our financial reports and for the most part we are aware of where the money goes. As a pilot group we have reasonable expectations for where our pay and benefits should be based on those reports.

 

[Fubijaakr]

On a side note my understanding of predatory pricing is not where it should be because the prices Jetblue charged at the beginning should have been illegal.

Exactly why I was anti-B6 10 years ago. And the fallout of lousy B6 pay rates back then ARE STILL BEING FELT at UAL and LCC. Those old B6 rates were imposed by the bankruptcy court judge and are still in force. THAT'S HOW VX LEVEL PAY RATES EFFECT US ALL.

I'm realistic of where my airline is and has been. I'm a realist, it's a job. If Jetblue, or any airline, could get rid of us tomorrow and employ someone for less money they would. As we say at Jetblue we are a cost unit and nothing else. At one point we were the bane of this industries pilot groups.

Today, that distinction goes to VX and AGT pilots.

 

[waveflyer]

It's called capitalism fubi. Your union isn't strong enough because most pilots (most americans) have been convinced to support anti-union politicians who stack the deck against labor.

 

[ASADFW7]

This thread stays, you all can ignore specific users, and not respond to attacks. There will always be a back and forth that represents the anonymous feature of the internet.

 

[PCL_128]

So? JetBlue Airbus pilots are amongst the highest paid A320 drivers in the country. Factor in that they don't lose 1.95% (that's almost 3,000 dollars for someone who makes $150k) and they come out damn near top compared to other major/legacy A320 pilots.

JetBlue pilots pay the highest insurance rates in the industry by far, and have no retirement plan other than a 401k. Their work rules are changed on a whim, and they have ZERO merger or scope protections. Your focus is too narrow. There is a lot more to a CBA than a pay rate.

 

[waveflyer]

+1 pcl

 

[waveflyer]

I encourage both VA and JB to union up- all the ford and Harrison lines are tired. Each of your execs has lawyers - and a contract they defend against all reason- but you can't ?
It doesn't have to lead to contention as SWA proves every day. When someone doesn't want you represented, it's bc they want to take advantage of you. Not letting execs take advantage of you and conduct business properly isn't having a bad attitude or being inflexible.
But I refuse to treat you all differently, and hope you each come to this conclusion as professional adults. Every other major financial item in your life is spelled out under contract, from your cell phone, cable, lease or mortgage, - why would you not have the terms of your professional life spelled out clearly in black and white, mutually binding contract- legally recognized under the rla -

 

[waveflyer]

(shakes head,) such a flamer

 

[Mamma]

It's called capitalism fubi. Your union isn't strong enough because most pilots (most americans) have been convinced to support anti-union politicians who stack the deck against labor.

I think its a generational and military thing. Military is mostly conservative. I guess those are the kind drawn to service. On the younger side, many young officers are appalled and amazed when they meed at young liberal officer. Just my experience though. Oh, and many Americans have a tough time swallowing the BS from the lib side anyway and vote on other issues important to them aside of labor.

 

[pilotpm]

I encourage both VA and JB to union up- all the ford and Harrison lines are tired. Each of your execs has lawyers - and a contract they defend against all reason- but you can't ?
It doesn't have to lead to contention as SWA proves every day. When someone doesn't want you represented, it's bc they want to take advantage of you. Not letting execs take advantage of you and conduct business properly isn't having a bad attitude or being inflexible.
But I refuse to treat you all differently, and hope you each come to this conclusion as professional adults. Every other major financial item in your life is spelled out under contract, from your cell phone, cable, lease or mortgage, - why would you not have the terms of your professional life spelled out clearly in black and white, mutually binding contract- legally recognized under the rla -

I think that we will eventually "union up". But, we will do it on OUR terms. We will not be pushed by outside influences. I don't think you will see ALPA on the property. The Teamsters are totally inappropriate. That leaves VAPA. I think you will eventually see an independent union here. But why would we do it now? I prefer to allow the company to max out what they are willingly going to give us before we go into 4-5 years of status quo while negotiating our first contract. The timing is not right. So as a result we must put up with tools like Fubi/Fish. Whatever, I'm fine with my choices and could give a rats @ss if Fishubi doesn't like it.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

+1 pilotpm. I agree with you completely.

 

[waveflyer]

Which is why I've defended you against fubi, and all others on the union thing- self determination is an important concept in America- but I disagree with your logic.
Just remember that fear of the status quo period is chapter 2 from ford and Harrison - they are very good at always convincing 51% that the time isn't right, and providing just enough carrot to keep you from legitimate representation.

I think that we will eventually "union up". But, we will do it on OUR terms. We will not be pushed by outside influences. I don't think you will see ALPA on the property. The Teamsters are totally inappropriate. That leaves VAPA. I think you will eventually see an independent union here. But why would we do it now? I prefer to allow the company to max out what they are willingly going to give us before we go into 4-5 years of status quo while negotiating our first contract. The timing is not right. So as a result we must put up with tools like Fubi/Fish. Whatever, I'm fine with my choices and could give a rats @ss if Fishubi doesn't like it.

 

[ASADFW7]

I apologize for not doing a better job moderating this thread for professional exchange for everyone. Another infraction has been given for creating an insulting thread creep.