Virgin America hangs as its hedge fund owners get antsy

[Green Banana]

Time will tell.....

 

[Shrek]

BTW... overhead is not higher... it's actually a lot cheaper. Fewer facilities, lower worker wages, newer airplanes with lower maint. costs, and I could go on... Just like JetBlue is able to operate cheaper than say UAL, DAL, AA etc... lower overhead is in part a reason. Granted that was an extreme oversimplification, but so was your question.

I find it hysterical that somebody by the name 'britpilot' is arguing against foreign ownership. Let not your heart be troubled, VA will fail. You said so right? Of course you couldn't be wrong could you?

Why don't you make fun of VA's uniforms now? Haven't seen that in a while. Anybody?

I hope that attitude doesn't come across at your next interview.......maybe get Kit Darby to help your resume ------ whoops nevermind

 

[Ralph Cramden]

OK, you caught us!

Sir Richard sent us over on holiday to drink your beer and shag your women.

The beer is terrible and the women, while easy, are shabby.

Time to go back to civilisation, our apologies for upsetting your narrow minded sensibilities.

We will leave now.....

/S

 

[Britpilot]

You are so right. It's obviously a sham. You are so smart, obviously you belong in government work as you could have saved the industry from the 'sham' that is VA. But then again, it doesn't matter right? They can't make money, and will fail. So then, why do you care? Go on to the next subject to 'wow' us on your knowledge, experience, and superior intellect.

So much anger there little man, seek help.

 

[Britpilot]

OK, you caught us!

Sir Richard sent us over on holiday to drink your beer and shag your women.

The beer is terrible and the women, while easy, are shabby.

Time to go back to civilisation, our apologies for upsetting your narrow minded sensibilities.

We will leave now.....

/S

Enjoy civilization in the UK, you can speak Pakistani can't you?

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I hope VA pulls through...

LOTS and I mean LOTS of good guys over there from ALPA carriers.


Think GENTLEMEN before you speak!

 

[Britpilot]

I find it hysterical that somebody by the name 'britpilot' is arguing against foreign ownership. Let not your heart be troubled, VA will fail. You said so right? Of course you couldn't be wrong could you?

No I did not say VA will fail, do you have trouble with reading? Dyslexia perhaps?
My heart is not troubled but thanks for your concern.
"Britpilot" is a name, you are correct there, well done, however, it is not my Nationality. I am glad that you enjoyed the irony little man.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

How can you charge reduced prices when you have a higher overhead cost? The airplanes are not as fuel efficient, the in flight entertainment system is heavy and costly, and VA is in and out of some of the most expensive airports. The only way you can provide "reduced prices" is to pay less to your employees. Have fun.

Hey GB,
Pretty sure our airbi are as fuel efficient or darn close to ur ng737's....i know they are way more fuel efficient than ur -400s...

As for as RED being heavy and costly....I'm sure the added weight is costing some $$$ but other than that being able to watch sports center commuting to work....priceless!

As for less pay for the employees...I will make more money my first 5 years at VA than I would at Alaska.

Cheers.
Q4GB

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Oh I just love it when the name calling begins... "little man", "seek help". LOVE IT!

 

[Britpilot]

Oh I just love it when the name calling begins... "little man", "seek help". LOVE IT!

Oh good, glad you enjoyed it makes my time worthwhile. "seek help" was advice not "name calling":bawling:

 

[Fubijaakr]

LOTS and I mean LOTS of good guys over there from ALPA carriers.

Sorry, good guys don't take non-Union jobs at wage rates that undercut ALPA contracts.

Ipso facto, there are NO "good" guys at Virgin. Just scumbags who are only concerned with themselves.

 

[mvedepo]

Ipso facto, there are NO "good" guys at Virgin. Just scumbags who are only concerned with themselves.

Are you not arguing that that us "scumbags" are bringing "your" pay down??? lol If you weren't concerned for "yourself" why are you so adiment about your hatred for Virgin America?

hypocrite

Main Entry:hyp·o·crite Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\ Function:noun Etymology:
Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthaiDate:13th century

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings



Please quit acting like you aren't being selfserving.
You are no different than the "scum" you speak about.

 

[StopNTSing]

How about we take a break from the school-yard arguments and get back to the substance of the thread? Can any VA dudes on here answer the question of your carrier's US ownership in the wake of the two principal US investors pulling out? All I've seen from your company spokesman so far is a lot of bob & weave with no direct answers. It is a legitimate question.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

How about we take a break from the school-yard arguments and get back to the substance of the thread? Can any VA dudes on here answer the question of your carrier's US ownership in the wake of the two principal US investors pulling out? All I've seen from your company spokesman so far is a lot of bob & weave with no direct answers. It is a legitimate question.

You won't get any of the VA bubbas to answer those questions.

They can't.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Actually I can answer the question. All of us can. But here is the reason we don't... honestly, why should we?

I don't owe any single person on here an explanation as to the ownership status of the place I work. I don't. Just like you don't owe me, or anybody else an explanation of anything either.

I love it how we are all scumbags. CRACKS ME UP! As a side note, the hypocracy that was just noted about this site and others like it is right on point. I remember discussions about how great the Comair guys were for raising the bar (honestly, no disrespect to the Comair people, many of my best friends came from there, I'm only making a point) because they went on strike and sacrificed for the greater good of their profession... MEANWHILE, I flying for SkyWest, also called scabs by some, was LOWERING the bar by flying a larger airplane at the same lower rate as I did with the smaller airplane... you know the old argument... anyway, these same Comair folks (many, not all), PAID for their jobs... remember PFT? Raising the bar? What bar? WHO CARES??? I don't take anything away from them, they did what they had to do, just like what I am doing now.

But let me ask this question. An ALPA guy loses his job... say at Aloha. No ALPA carriers are hiring... what is he/she to do? Not work? Do something else? That's nuts, and 99% of you out there would try to get the best job you could, which most likely would be flying as you would likely get the quickest route to higher pay than say starting over doing something else.

The point is, there is no brotherhood in aviation, none at all. Those who say there is, wait until your airline crashes and burns and see how your fraternal order treats you. Also I should say, I'm not anti-union at all... I just don't buy into the fraternal/brotherhood/sisterhood/you pay your dues and I'll spend it at will idealism.

In the end, I make money for my family and myself. I don't begrudge anybody else on how they make theirs. Why are you guys attacking people who in most cases are just trying to put food on their table? To make yourself feel better? Trying to make up for something that is... lacking perhaps?

What I would really like to see is one of you guys say this stuff, about my company, to my face. You won't. You have no problem doing it sitting in your underwear in your hotel on an overnight, but fewer than 1% would say it to my, or my peers, faces. Now as for the 1%, I still think they are misguided, but I do have respect for them.

To answer the question that I said I wouldn't. Right now, as it's been from the beginning, VA is a US owned and US controlled airline. The DOT signed off on us in the beginning, and any change in investorship will occur within that DOT approved process. This is nothing new, if you do your research you can find this out for yourself.

Oh, and as far as those who detest or otherwise question the legitimacy of airlines with foreign investorship... it's been done for years. NWA/KLM, CAL and Air Canada... recently JetBlue/Lufthansa. Get over it, half the country is owned by the Chinese, and by the time the idiots in DC are done, they'll own the other half!

Okay, now everybody get back to MS Flt Sim with your hat on or whatever it is you do.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Oh, and those of you who post your TT on your profile... do you update that every leg like your logbook? Remember, it doesn't include MS Flight Sim.

Just wondering... why would you post that stuff anyway? Does it make you feel more important or think that somebody would take you more seriously?

I would think it makes you look more like a tool that became a pilot to wear the uniform and feel important instead of the little kid who got beat up by the big kids (mostly girls) when they were in school.

Then it might just be me... remember I'm a scumbag.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Oh, and those of you who post your TT on your profile... do you update that every leg like your logbook? Remember, it doesn't include MS Flight Sim.

Just wondering... why would you post that stuff anyway? Does it make you feel more important or think that somebody would take you more seriously?

I would think it makes you look more like a tool that became a pilot to wear the uniform and feel important instead of the little kid who got beat up by the big kids (mostly girls) when they were in school.

Then it might just be me... remember I'm a scumbag.

Wow, Crazy, that's quite a diatribe/soliloquy.

Make sure you take the fish with you, Jerry.

 

[Chief Pilot]

Also I should say, I'm not anti-union at all... I just don't buy into the fraternal/brotherhood/sisterhood/you pay your dues and I'll spend it at will idealism.

Fokker,

You may claim not to be anti-union, and maybe you actually are, but you obviously have no idea what it means to be part of a union and have a botherhood that stands beside you with the goal of making your life better. Going from one non-union airline to another, believing that management actually has your best interest at heart is naive and certainly doesn't qualify you to speak on what it's like to be a union member. Did Empire ever do anything that made your life better other than hire you? VA is the same thing only with big shiny jets carrying people. You are at their wim and have no way to change or improve your working conditions other than to quit. You get what they decide you deserve, not what you actually deserve for the job you do and the role you play in their success. This is precisely why they hired you. You are more than happy to accept crap and defend it.

 

[Blue Dude]

To answer the question that I said I wouldn't. Right now, as it's been from the beginning, VA is a US owned and US controlled airline. The DOT signed off on us in the beginning, and any change in investorship will occur within that DOT approved process. This is nothing new, if you do your research you can find this out for yourself.

Oh, and as far as those who detest or otherwise question the legitimacy of airlines with foreign investorship... it's been done for years. NWA/KLM, CAL and Air Canada... recently JetBlue/Lufthansa.

Well, the primary US investors in VA appear to have cashed our their positions (with interest), with their shares being repurchased by a foreign entity. That means that VA no longer meets US ownership requirements: 25% max voting interest and 50% max ownership by foreign entities. It's up to VA to demonstrate that they still meet those requirements, but I don't see how they can.

The difference between VA and the other airline investment combos you mentioned is that in all other cases, the foreign investment is demonstrably a minority interest in accordance with US law. VA has every appearance of being nearly wholly owned by foreign entities. How do you explain this discrepancy?

 

[CaptSeth]

How do you explain this discrepancy?

Well, VA has sixty days from about a week ago to explain this discrepancy, or it's goodbye sir richard. Watch closely reporting over the next week or so regarding DOT and justice department investigations.

 

[Fubijaakr]

iPlease quit acting like you aren't being selfserving.
You are no different than the "scum" you speak about.

Nope, you just don't get it. I'm opposed to you because of what you're doing to the profession. Sure, I'm pissed because you're lowering my pay. But the bigger issue is the fact that YOU are driving EVERY Union pilot's pay down.

Thanks, scumbags.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

I do know what it is like to be a member of a union. You don't know my life history, nor do you need to.

Empire never did anything positive for me ever, including hire me. Okay, that's point is covered.

I voted FOR a union at SkyWest. Turns out, they probably really didn't need it, but I thought they did at the time.

VA is a new airline. Show me any example of a company that had a union right of the bat. I know there are actually one or two airlines that voted them in rather quickly, but the truth is they are rare, and like everything it does take time. Will it be sooner? Later? An improvement? Or make life worse? Who knows, but if you are honest with yourselves you know there are examples of work groups that unions work for, and those that they tend to work against.

But, being partisans, you likely won't admit that. So I just wasted my 'breath'.

 

[Fubijaakr]

An ALPA guy loses his job... say at Aloha. No ALPA carriers are hiring... what is he/she to do? Not work? Do something else?

EXACTLY! DO SOMETHING ELSE! I guess you think you aren't capable or smart enough to find other work. Perhaps you know yourselves better than we do.

That's nuts, and 99% of you out there would try to get the best job you could, which most likely would be flying as you would likely get the quickest route to higher pay than say starting over doing something else.

Nuts to you, maybe. But there are lots of us who wouldn't consider APPLYING TO much less WORKING FOR a non-Union operation that so blatently undercuts Union contracts.

The point is, there is no brotherhood in aviation, none at all.

Not on your part, anyway. That's obvious.

In the end, I make money for my family and myself. I don't begrudge anybody else on how they make theirs. Why are you guys attacking people who in most cases are just trying to put food on their table?

Yep, exactly the same thing scabs say just before they cross the picket line. Same justification. I guess it works for you. But it also says volumes about your morality.

What I would really like to see is one of you guys say this stuff, about my company, to my face.

No problem. Just come ask me for a jumpseat ride.

You won't. You have no problem doing it sitting in your underwear in your hotel on an overnight, but fewer than 1% would say it to my, or my peers, faces. Now as for the 1%, I still think they are misguided, but I do have respect for them.

Try me.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Wow. You are a piece of work. Enjoy yourself.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

But the bigger issue is the fact that YOU are driving EVERY Union pilot's pay down.

Thanks, scumbags.

Is ALPA really a union? Well if they really were a union they would have found jobs for all those union paying brothers and sisters who were employed at the now defunct carriers at Aloha and ATA. What ALPA carriers put those folks under their wing? Offered them jobs? Or did ALPA offer to retrain them so they could rejoin the workforce in some other profession? None of the above. I don't even thing they get the magazine anymore.

Our pilots will make more than an Alaska new hire in the first 5 years. If you want to go that route, then perhaps it is Alaska Airlines driving the pay rates down. That and we have no captains that have the seniority of your most junior one. You can compare captain rates but it is totally askew. Your anger would be better directed in the proper direction: Alaska management and of course your 'union' leaders. Good luck with your contract, I sincerly hope you do well.

Q4GB

 

[Britpilot]

Right now, as it's been from the beginning, VA is a US owned and US controlled airline.

Oh, and as far as those who detest or otherwise question the legitimacy of airlines with foreign investorship... it's been done for years. NWA/KLM, CAL and Air Canada... recently JetBlue/Lufthansa.

US controlled airline? You really don't believe that do you? Sir Richard says it's his airline.
Foreign investors are nothing new, you are correct. Foreign ownership of a US airline is illegal. Very simple you can look it up.
Now you can return to your Flight Sim in your very nice uniform.

 

[Britpilot]

Oh, and those of you who post your TT on your profile... do you update that every leg like your logbook? Remember, it doesn't include MS Flight Sim.

Why do you care?

 

[Fubijaakr]

...we have no captains that have the seniority of your most junior one.

Thank you for making my point. Your most senior Captain is flying an A320 TODAY for $100 an hour. That's about $55 an hour LESS than what our junior Captain is making.

And you think you're NOT lowering the bar?

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Thank you for making my point. Your most senior Captain is flying an A320 TODAY for $100 an hour. That's about $55 an hour LESS than what our junior Captain is making.

And you think you're NOT lowering the bar?

I'm not following your logic here. Ok let me ask you this. How many 2 year captains do you have? How about 6 year captains? None I'm pretty sure. Ok how many 12 year captains do we have and what is their pay rate? None and unknown. Our scale tops out at the six year mark. So again I don't see the comparison. Now should that rate not change beyond the six year mark then you have a valid argument and if that were to occur I'm betting we'd have a union on the property faster than you can say Angle Lake submarine races. Until then your argument is about 4 years too early IMHO.

 

[ualdriver]

Thank you for making my point. Your most senior Captain is flying an A320 TODAY for $100 an hour. That's about $55 an hour LESS than what our junior Captain is making.

And you think you're NOT lowering the bar?

I think you're wasting your time. And I think you told me that once, too, when I was going 'round and 'round with the "our low wages don't/won't bring other airlines' wages" Allegiant guy

I've learned from flightinfo.com that's it's OK to massively undercut the prevailing wage as long as it is for the following reasons:

1) It's OK because we're a new airline
2) It's OK because ALPA sucks/it's ALPA's fault I lost my pension/job or insert other anti-ALPA sentiment
3) It's OK because I get to be home every night
4) It's OK because we have a great relationship with management
5) It's OK because it's a quick upgrade
6) It's OK because we don't fly to the places your airline flies to

I might have missed a couple.