Virgin America hangs as its hedge fund owners get antsy

[Dizel8]

Furloghed ALPA members who voluntarily went to work for a non-Union carrier who offers substandard wages.

And ALPA pilots are supposed to support that?

FJ,

Time to look at those med's again?

Okay, all kidding aside, you are perhaps disparaging fellow ALPA airmen who got screwed by their management. Would you give one of your fellow ALK airmen the evil eye, if he while furloughed from ALK, joined VA or JB untill he could return or do you think he should stay unemployed?

 

[Larcifer]

No backup plan outside of aviation no sympathy. You want to go to a non union startup LCC and undercut your fellow pilots, you might as well cross the picket line. This industry fell on its ass 25+ years ago. I get sick of the whining about lost pensions, got to feed my family, to dumb to do anything else. Shame on you for not being prepared. 2 furloughs and a layoff and I've never even entertained the idea of F'n my fellow aviators. I just had to listen to a VA pilot brag about how they don't care about making money just gaining market share. VA cannot be gone soon enough.

 

[mvedepo]

No backup plan outside of aviation no sympathy. You want to go to a non union startup LCC and undercut your fellow pilots, you might as well cross the picket line. This industry fell on its ass 25+ years ago. I get sick of the whining about lost pensions, got to feed my family, to dumb to do anything else. Shame on you for not being prepared. 2 furloughs and a layoff and I've never even entertained the idea of F'n my fellow aviators. I just had to listen to a VA pilot brag about how they don't care about making money just gaining market share. VA cannot be gone soon enough.

This whole "crossing a picket line" BS shows how much of an idiot you really are.

Hell if it wasn't for the airlines that are managed like crap maybe there wouldn't be a REASON for Virgin. Not to mention pensions and pay scales were shot well before Virgin flew. Maybe I should blame our "low" pay scale on YOU because of all the concessions you ALREADY made before we launched or even HAD a pay scale. Maybe I should point the finger at YOU and lean on YOU for bringing down the pay scales FIRST. Maybe, just maybe YOU are actually "F'n" us, your "fellow" aviators. Just a thought.

 

[mvedepo]

Larcifer,

Did you post this:
"SWA is just doing to F9 as F9 did to UAL. Sucks but that is the way free market works. How many out there go to Wal-Mart, Costco, Homedepot etc, instead of the local Mom and Pop store? SWA has what the flying domestic public want...lots of options and cheap fares. There is currently to much domestic capacity and the weak won't survive."

Seems your tune has changed. Its obvious you are bitter. But your problems at F9 have nothing to do with Virgin. Your issues are having all your eggs in one basket at DIA and SWA moving into the market. The funny things is everyone here is pulling for you guys at Frontier. Not to mention I have a lot of friends there.

 

[zman]

Funny thats about what we make at AirTran......And we don't get hot stews. :-(

What we make at Airtran?? Obviously then your not an Airtran pilot. Here is an interesting site, www.airlinepilotcentral.com, take a look at Airtran pay rates before saying something like that. Oh dont forget our 12hr duty day and reserve work rules that no one can touch. Also yea silly me I forgot about our 10.5 % B-fund. I am seriously amazed how stupid some of the remarks people make at Airtran. Dont compare VA a regional paid airline with an airline that pays more then most legacy airlines do. Most of Airtran monthly lines are worth hell of alot more then friends of mine at different legacy carriers. Go look at what an Airtran F/O makes on second year pay with our reserve work rules people still dont believe me. Before we get a descent contract we have to know what we have first and whats worth fighting for!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Before we get a descent contract we have to know what we have first and whats worth fighting for!

Shoot for an "ascent" contract, you will be more pleased with it.

 

[clickclickboom]

chef we have a town hall good takeaway descent by default contract..

Your a 646 er? Im impressed. that makes us the smart minority? Foe me it was an easy decision.

And the surveys and heart felt emails continue

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Your a 646 er? Im impressed.

You thought I was a juicer?

Never have been. Yes, I'm a 646er.

 

[fam62c]

Also Google United Airlines predatory pricing. That's worth the read as well.

Just for the sake of discussion, wouldn't VA also be guilty of predatory pricing because they are selling all of their tickets at a loss to gain market share and the company has never made a profit? There seems to be a double standard here. When a startup carrier that has never made a profit enters a market and severely undercuts the pricing of an incumbent carier that's OK; but if the incumbent carrier reduces their price below the new entrant that's considered unfair and predatory.

I'm not picking on VA specifically here but this is one of the biggest problems in the airline industry. Few if any airlines will price their product at a level that allows for a decent profit margin and everyone is willing to take losses to gain or retain market share. The result is massive overcapacity that ends up getting sold below cost and, in the end, nobody makes a profit. With very few exceptions you end up with an industry full of airlines that are out of business, bankrupt, have been bankrupt or will be bankrupt.

VA entered the US domestic airline industry at a time when the last thing we needed was more capacity. They offered their product below cost and continue to do so which is not a viable business plan. The investors with the "out" clauses would be fools not to pull their money out. The US domestic airline market is about the worst place to invest money that I can think of because of the capacity issue mentioned above, nobody has any pricing power and even the best managed carriers lose money.

 

[shindler]

It is ironical that the best trained pilot in the world that contributes to make the US the safest place where to fly have to earn the least amount of money in the world (Elsewhere I can attest that a 300 hrs. kadet graduates makes the equivalent of 80,000$ per year baby seating an A340......com' on)
Compiled also with a "disgusting disunity" at the unions levels and even among fellow aviator who choose to go and fly a "real plane" like the A319 undercutting everyone else..
Guys listen to Captain Sullenberger congress hearing and think about it.....

 

[Wesb737fo]

I am not as concerned with VA as I am RAH. 100+ E170/175's and another 100+ 50 seaters. Top fo pay $37/hr and 3 year CA pay $68. SCOPE or you'll wind up like MEH.

 

[Horrido]

Gotta agree Zman...your pay at Airtran is quite good compared to many in the industry. I think a lot of folks are mis-informed. BTW...thanks for so many rides on your planes to and from work during my many years at Midwest. Before being furloughed I rode AirTran countless times and ALWAYS was placed in first class when there was room. And your Milwaukee agents were better to me than our own...thanks!

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Gotta agree Zman...your pay at Airtran is quite good compared to many in the industry.

Hahaha. Please ... need ... more ... humor ...

 

[Horrido]

Ah...the routine sarcasm, and in less than 12 hours! Well done!

 

[mvedepo]

What we make at Airtran?? Obviously then your not an Airtran pilot. Here is an interesting site, www.airlinepilotcentral.com, take a look at Airtran pay rates before saying something like that."
"Dont compare VA a regional paid airline with an airline that pays more then most legacy airlines do. Most of Airtran monthly lines are worth hell of alot more then friends of mine at different legacy carriers."

Really...Are you serious? Lets compare VA's "regional" payscale to your "better than legacy" payscale.
Captain F/O
Year VA ATran VA Atran
1 $100 $102 $44 $43
2 $105 $102 $55 $56
3 $110 $106 $60 $61
4 $115 $112 $65 $66
5 $120 $120 $70 $72
6 $125 $124 $75 $74
7 $130 $127 $80 $78
8 $135 $132 $85 $79
9 $140 $137 $90 $79
10 $145 $144 $95 $79

Wow you are sure setting the bar on pay scales are you?

Oh wait nevermind. Oh yeah. Whats the upgrade time over there?