Virgin America hangs as its hedge fund owners get antsy

[Horrido]

I wonder what Southwest paid their employees/pilots when they started 25 years ago and where a crappy outfit with a couple of old planes. Now they are a respectable airline with great work rules.I just do not understand why a 1.5 year old airline is compared to companies that are around for years and have gone through several contract negotiations to get where they are now....
I hope VA survives, have flown on them several times and they are the best. can't stand the other carriers with old equipment and employees with sh$tty attitudes, oh wait the all work for excellent wages and workrules, not....

Oh no Mplex...you're going to ruin all the "my airline's better than yours" banter with talk like that.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

That wasn't in response to you. Our standard daily rig is the greater of what you work, where scheduled to work, or 3.5 hours. We get 125% over 82 hours or when offered by scheduling.

Vacation is essentially 1 week of vacation for every year with the company.

We have unlimited sick time.

You sound like the band on the Titanic.

 

[flyipilot]

Based on the news today about VA. I am sure they will find new investors and continue normal ops. But, I have to say the one tiny thing that stands out is that VA is not completely honest. IN a news report dated March 3rd. the denied to the death that the (2) US investors would be bailing out. Today they did. I am not that naive to think that VA had no clue as to this March 3rd. Please. It just goes to show that VA management is no different than any other airlines. VA really is not a different airline after all. They hide the truth and tried to hide their financials. It is sad because I really thought they would be different. Just smoke and mirrors and some mood lighting. Take heart employees....VA is lieing to you all about their future. I wish them no ill, just be honest. You knew you were going to lose your investors and you lied about it a week ago. (sigh)

 

[Horrido]

LOL...never mind...it's still going strong.

 

[metroplex]

horrido, how was Midwest treating you....?

 

[Singlecoil]

I find it very interesting that in the linked SF Chronicle article above that Cush was quoted saying that (and I paraphrase) look, we are still 75% controlled by Americans that hasn't changed. What he pointedly left out was the fact that there are two requirements. You have to be 75% controlled by Americans and 51% owned by Americans. Why didn't he say that they were still 51% owned by Americans? Because they aren't.

 

[tzskipper]

I find it very interesting that in the linked SF Chronicle article above that Cush was quoted saying that (and I paraphrase) look, we are still 75% controlled by Americans that hasn't changed. What he pointedly left out was the fact that there are two requirements. You have to be 75% controlled by Americans and 51% owned by Americans. Why didn't he say that they were still 51% owned by Americans? Because they aren't.

Maybe this interview will answer a few questions:

http://cbs5.com/video/[email protected]

What I don't get is that ALK management is making their case based on a newspaper article. Any idea of what their response will be if/when the DOT rules that there is no issue?

Skipper

 

[Bavarian Chef]

LOL...never mind...it's still going strong.

By that you mean still losing investor money?

Huh?

 

[Chief Pilot]

Maybe this interview will answer a few questions:

http://cbs5.com/video/[email protected]

What I don't get is that ALK management is making their case based on a newspaper article. Any idea of what their response will be if/when the DOT rules that there is no issue?

Skipper

What questions did this answer? That Cush knows how to dodge question and give no real answers. It was simply a marketing interview hoping to draw some actual U.S. investors to bail them out.

Good or bad, Alaska doesn't do anything without researching it to death first. This includes moving into a new market, negotiations, etc...and includes pressing the DOT about Virgin possibly being in violation on foreign ownership laws. It's highly doubtful they got this ball rolling because someone in management picked up a newspaper one morning.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

By that you mean still losing investor money?

Huh?

Sorry, it's flightinfo ... I should have said "loosing".

 

[tzskipper]

What questions did this answer? That Cush knows how to dodge question and give no real answers. It was simply a marketing interview hoping to draw some actual U.S. investors to bail them out.

Good or bad, Alaska doesn't do anything without researching it to death first. This includes moving into a new market, negotiations, etc...and includes pressing the DOT about Virgin possibly being in violation on foreign ownership laws. It's highly doubtful they got this ball rolling because someone in management picked up a newspaper one morning.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/12/al...n-markets-equity-virgin.html?feed=rss_markets

Based on the load factors (as indicated in the Forbes article), it would seem that if ALK management has researched it to death, then they must be out of ideas on how to effectively compete. It would seem that there are really only three main areas of competition: service, schedule and price, yet ALK management is intent on creating a fourth... eliminate the competition. Is this because they are out of ideas regarding the other three?...

Seriously though... The impetus of the original and subsequent complaint to the DOT was the WSJ article. That complaint has been publicly addressed by VA management (as in "nothing has changed"...). I would think that as an ALK employee, you ought to asking why ALK management cannot or will not try and address the other three areas where the two airlines compete.

Regards,

Skipper

 

[Bavarian Chef]

http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/12/al...n-markets-equity-virgin.html?feed=rss_markets

Based on the load factors (as indicated in the Forbes article), it would seem that if ALK management has researched it to death, then they must be out of ideas on how to effectively compete. It would seem that there are really only three main areas of competition: service, schedule and price, yet ALK management is intent on creating a fourth... eliminate the competition. Is this because they are out of ideas regarding the other three?...

Seriously though... The impetus of the original and subsequent complaint to the DOT was the WSJ article. That complaint has been publicly addressed by VA management (as in "nothing has changed"...). I would think that as an ALK employee, you ought to asking why ALK management cannot or will not try and address the other three areas where the two airlines compete.

Regards,

Skipper

What? Maybe the ownership is (magically) above board -- but two relatively large investors bailed.

Yep, nothing has changed.

 

[tzskipper]

What? Maybe the ownership is (magically) above board -- but two relatively large investors bailed.

Yep, nothing has changed.

That's the rub...

The WSJ says something about "...according to people familiar with the situation.".... Yet VA management says the ownership structure has not changed, indicating that the investors are still in place.

Who is telling the truth? the un-named "people familiar with the situation", or the named management of VA?

Considering the make up of VA's BOD, I would say that they are a pretty business smart group, meaning it would be very surprising that they would make any deal that would potentially put the company in harms way.

Regards,

Skipper

 

[Dizel8]

Unless the investors are worried about VA going Tango Uniform and wants their money pronto!

 

[StopNTSing]

http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/12/al...n-markets-equity-virgin.html?feed=rss_markets

Based on the load factors (as indicated in the Forbes article), it would seem that if ALK management has researched it to death, then they must be out of ideas on how to effectively compete. It would seem that there are really only three main areas of competition: service, schedule and price, yet ALK management is intent on creating a fourth... eliminate the competition. Is this because they are out of ideas regarding the other three?...

Seriously though... The impetus of the original and subsequent complaint to the DOT was the WSJ article. That complaint has been publicly addressed by VA management (as in "nothing has changed"...). I would think that as an ALK employee, you ought to asking why ALK management cannot or will not try and address the other three areas where the two airlines compete.

Regards,

Skipper

Wow....Cush himself is gracing us with posts here on FI. Whodathunkit?

 

[mvedepo]

Rumor has it we are going to be making SEA a domicile.

 

[Dizel8]

Rumor has it we are going to be making SEA a domicile.

Why? Are the unemployment benefits better up there ?

 

[mvedepo]

Does it matter? I would never live there! lol

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Sorry to hear it, guys. I was hoping VA would do well and become a solid airline in the future. Unfortunately you can't make money by flying expensive airplanes on long routes into expensive airports while charging minimal prices for tickets.
I'm absolutely convinced that VA's management has been lying in their financial reports and that they are extremely deep in debt.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Rumor has it we are going to be making SEA a domicile.

Stop teasing me!

 

[Horrido]

Sorry to hear it, guys. I was hoping VA would do well and become a solid airline in the future. Unfortunately you can't make money by flying expensive airplanes on long routes into expensive airports while charging minimal prices for tickets.
I'm absolutely convinced that VA's management has been lying in their financial reports and that they are extremely deep in debt.

Yes it's all over...just like AirTran, USAirways, United, Frontier, Sun Country ect. I wish I had a nickel for every time I have heard a death notice on an airline that's still flying.

 

[mvedepo]

Yes it's all over...just like AirTran, USAirways, United, Frontier, Sun Country ect. I wish I had a nickel for every time I have heard a death notice on an airline that's still flying.

You forgot Spirit, USA3000, Midwest, and JetBlue.

 

[flyipilot]

I am curious? VA is getting or has gotten the last 4 planes in their fleet until at least 2011. They can only add one more city this year and can not really add flights based on the fleet size. So, if they are losing about 630k a day (based on their reports), How again are they going to turn a profit? They fly to the most expensive cities, on routes that will never allow any higher fares than what they now charge and everyone says their loads at at records..or full. So, again, how will they make one dime? When nothing is changing? Actually, the fares keep dropping. Oh well, I do not know their big picture so, I give them the benefit of doubt and will hold them to their word..a profit in the last 2 quarters and a entire year of profit in 2010. Now, just curious what excuse they will use when this does not happen? I thought I read where they were going to have a fleet the size of JB by this time? I thought I read they were going to make a profit by first 1/4 2009? Bottom line, I do not see any airline being able to compete with SWA competition in the long run.

 

[metroplex]

I hope someone will compete against Southwest. Otherwise the only thing that will be left over in the U.S. will be Walmart and SW. great!!!!! what a diversity. And they have one thing in common.the same clientel....

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

I am curious? VA is getting or has gotten the last 4 planes in their fleet until at least 2011. They can only add one more city this year and can not really add flights based on the fleet size. So, if they are losing about 630k a day (based on their reports), How again are they going to turn a profit? They fly to the most expensive cities, on routes that will never allow any higher fares than what they now charge and everyone says their loads at at records..or full. So, again, how will they make one dime? When nothing is changing? Actually, the fares keep dropping. Oh well, I do not know their big picture so, I give them the benefit of doubt and will hold them to their word..a profit in the last 2 quarters and a entire year of profit in 2010. Now, just curious what excuse they will use when this does not happen? I thought I read where they were going to have a fleet the size of JB by this time? I thought I read they were going to make a profit by first 1/4 2009? Bottom line, I do not see any airline being able to compete with SWA competition in the long run.

First of all, VA's business model was not to compete with SWA. Not now, not before, not in the future. VA's business model was to be more of a niche airline... moderate size to major airports and provide a superior product at reduced prices. Not sub SWA, prices... cheaper than UAL, AA, etc. though.

You don't see them making a profit? Okay, who cares? I don't see UAL ever making a profit again. Does anybody care? Nope, just like I don't care about the majority of the 'experts' on here, and what they are just positive will happen.

Anybody on this board of idiots ever take a business class? Start a business on your own? Anybody? Let me ask you this... If you did start a business on your own, surely you made a profit the first quarter right? No? Second? And no, I'm not talking about mowing lawns or a lemonade stand. I'm talking maybe a flight school... better yet, a store, a coffee shop, something like that.

Of COURSE VA has lost money. A lot of it. But for those of you who do have some sort of business background, it takes time to make money. But wait, doesn't matter... they are going to fail. Might as well all go home. But if you do look at the numbers... they lost less money as a percentage each subsequent quarter than the previous. Looks like a profit is possible. Imagine that.

The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me. Okay, enough of this... why doesn't everybody get back to how VA pilots are ruining everybody elses jobs, taking their women, and ruining the economy? Isn't that what all these threads devolve into anyway?

 

[Green Banana]

...provide a superior product at reduced prices.....

How can you charge reduced prices when you have a higher overhead cost? The airplanes are not as fuel efficient, the in flight entertainment system is heavy and costly, and VA is in and out of some of the most expensive airports. The only way you can provide "reduced prices" is to pay less to your employees. Have fun.

 

[Britpilot]

Anybody on this board of idiots ever take a business class? Start a business on your own? Anybody? Let me ask you this... If you did start a business on your own, surely you made a profit the first quarter right? No? Second? And no, I'm not talking about mowing lawns or a lemonade stand. I'm talking maybe a flight school... better yet, a store, a coffee shop, something like that.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Courier Service in London

Any further questions?

The big deal here was that Virgin America is a sham. It is a foreign owned airline operating in the US. The US investors were required to circumnavigate US ownership laws. It is clear that should not have been permitted.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Courier Service in London

Any further questions?

The big deal here was that Virgin America is a sham. It is a foreign owned airline operating in the US. The US investors were required to circumnavigate US ownership laws. It is clear that should not have been permitted.

You are so right. It's obviously a sham. You are so smart, obviously you belong in government work as you could have saved the industry from the 'sham' that is VA. But then again, it doesn't matter right? They can't make money, and will fail. So then, why do you care? Go on to the next subject to 'wow' us on your knowledge, experience, and superior intellect.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

BTW... overhead is not higher... it's actually a lot cheaper. Fewer facilities, lower worker wages, newer airplanes with lower maint. costs, and I could go on... Just like JetBlue is able to operate cheaper than say UAL, DAL, AA etc... lower overhead is in part a reason. Granted that was an extreme oversimplification, but so was your question.

I find it hysterical that somebody by the name 'britpilot' is arguing against foreign ownership. Let not your heart be troubled, VA will fail. You said so right? Of course you couldn't be wrong could you?

Why don't you make fun of VA's uniforms now? Haven't seen that in a while. Anybody?

 

[Chief Pilot]

why doesn't everybody get back to how VA pilots are ruining everybody elses jobs, taking their women, and ruining the economy? Isn't that what all these threads devolve into anyway?

I guess when you dress like Johnny Cash, that's just a given.