Virgin America hangs as its hedge fund owners get antsy

[Fubijaakr]

iPlease quit acting like you aren't being selfserving.
You are no different than the "scum" you speak about.

Nope, you just don't get it. I'm opposed to you because of what you're doing to the profession. Sure, I'm pissed because you're lowering my pay. But the bigger issue is the fact that YOU are driving EVERY Union pilot's pay down.

Thanks, scumbags.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

I do know what it is like to be a member of a union. You don't know my life history, nor do you need to.

Empire never did anything positive for me ever, including hire me. Okay, that's point is covered.

I voted FOR a union at SkyWest. Turns out, they probably really didn't need it, but I thought they did at the time.

VA is a new airline. Show me any example of a company that had a union right of the bat. I know there are actually one or two airlines that voted them in rather quickly, but the truth is they are rare, and like everything it does take time. Will it be sooner? Later? An improvement? Or make life worse? Who knows, but if you are honest with yourselves you know there are examples of work groups that unions work for, and those that they tend to work against.

But, being partisans, you likely won't admit that. So I just wasted my 'breath'.

 

[Fubijaakr]

An ALPA guy loses his job... say at Aloha. No ALPA carriers are hiring... what is he/she to do? Not work? Do something else?

EXACTLY! DO SOMETHING ELSE! I guess you think you aren't capable or smart enough to find other work. Perhaps you know yourselves better than we do.

That's nuts, and 99% of you out there would try to get the best job you could, which most likely would be flying as you would likely get the quickest route to higher pay than say starting over doing something else.

Nuts to you, maybe. But there are lots of us who wouldn't consider APPLYING TO much less WORKING FOR a non-Union operation that so blatently undercuts Union contracts.

The point is, there is no brotherhood in aviation, none at all.

Not on your part, anyway. That's obvious.

In the end, I make money for my family and myself. I don't begrudge anybody else on how they make theirs. Why are you guys attacking people who in most cases are just trying to put food on their table?

Yep, exactly the same thing scabs say just before they cross the picket line. Same justification. I guess it works for you. But it also says volumes about your morality.

What I would really like to see is one of you guys say this stuff, about my company, to my face.

No problem. Just come ask me for a jumpseat ride.

You won't. You have no problem doing it sitting in your underwear in your hotel on an overnight, but fewer than 1% would say it to my, or my peers, faces. Now as for the 1%, I still think they are misguided, but I do have respect for them.

Try me.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Wow. You are a piece of work. Enjoy yourself.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

But the bigger issue is the fact that YOU are driving EVERY Union pilot's pay down.

Thanks, scumbags.

Is ALPA really a union? Well if they really were a union they would have found jobs for all those union paying brothers and sisters who were employed at the now defunct carriers at Aloha and ATA. What ALPA carriers put those folks under their wing? Offered them jobs? Or did ALPA offer to retrain them so they could rejoin the workforce in some other profession? None of the above. I don't even thing they get the magazine anymore.

Our pilots will make more than an Alaska new hire in the first 5 years. If you want to go that route, then perhaps it is Alaska Airlines driving the pay rates down. That and we have no captains that have the seniority of your most junior one. You can compare captain rates but it is totally askew. Your anger would be better directed in the proper direction: Alaska management and of course your 'union' leaders. Good luck with your contract, I sincerly hope you do well.

Q4GB

 

[Britpilot]

Right now, as it's been from the beginning, VA is a US owned and US controlled airline.

Oh, and as far as those who detest or otherwise question the legitimacy of airlines with foreign investorship... it's been done for years. NWA/KLM, CAL and Air Canada... recently JetBlue/Lufthansa.

US controlled airline? You really don't believe that do you? Sir Richard says it's his airline.
Foreign investors are nothing new, you are correct. Foreign ownership of a US airline is illegal. Very simple you can look it up.
Now you can return to your Flight Sim in your very nice uniform.

 

[Britpilot]

Oh, and those of you who post your TT on your profile... do you update that every leg like your logbook? Remember, it doesn't include MS Flight Sim.

Why do you care?

 

[Fubijaakr]

...we have no captains that have the seniority of your most junior one.

Thank you for making my point. Your most senior Captain is flying an A320 TODAY for $100 an hour. That's about $55 an hour LESS than what our junior Captain is making.

And you think you're NOT lowering the bar?

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Thank you for making my point. Your most senior Captain is flying an A320 TODAY for $100 an hour. That's about $55 an hour LESS than what our junior Captain is making.

And you think you're NOT lowering the bar?

I'm not following your logic here. Ok let me ask you this. How many 2 year captains do you have? How about 6 year captains? None I'm pretty sure. Ok how many 12 year captains do we have and what is their pay rate? None and unknown. Our scale tops out at the six year mark. So again I don't see the comparison. Now should that rate not change beyond the six year mark then you have a valid argument and if that were to occur I'm betting we'd have a union on the property faster than you can say Angle Lake submarine races. Until then your argument is about 4 years too early IMHO.

 

[ualdriver]

Thank you for making my point. Your most senior Captain is flying an A320 TODAY for $100 an hour. That's about $55 an hour LESS than what our junior Captain is making.

And you think you're NOT lowering the bar?

I think you're wasting your time. And I think you told me that once, too, when I was going 'round and 'round with the "our low wages don't/won't bring other airlines' wages" Allegiant guy

I've learned from flightinfo.com that's it's OK to massively undercut the prevailing wage as long as it is for the following reasons:

1) It's OK because we're a new airline
2) It's OK because ALPA sucks/it's ALPA's fault I lost my pension/job or insert other anti-ALPA sentiment
3) It's OK because I get to be home every night
4) It's OK because we have a great relationship with management
5) It's OK because it's a quick upgrade
6) It's OK because we don't fly to the places your airline flies to

I might have missed a couple.

 

[StarChecker]

I think you're wasting your time. And I think you told me that once, too, when I was going 'round and 'round with the "our low wages don't/won't bring other airlines' wages" Allegiant guy

I've learned from flightinfo.com that's it's OK to massively undercut the prevailing wage as long as it is for the following reasons:

1) It's OK because we're a new airline
2) It's OK because ALPA sucks/it's ALPA's fault I lost my pension/job or insert other anti-ALPA sentiment
3) It's OK because I get to be home every night
4) It's OK because we have a great relationship with management
5) It's OK because it's a quick upgrade
6) It's OK because we don't fly to the places your airline flies to

I might have missed a couple.

That about sums up 80% of the Captains I fly with...

and you missed one...

"I got mine....$crew anyone junior to me."

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I think you're wasting your time. And I think you told me that once, too, when I was going 'round and 'round with the "our low wages don't/won't bring other airlines' wages" Allegiant guy

I've learned from flightinfo.com that's it's OK to massively undercut the prevailing wage as long as it is for the following reasons:

1) It's OK because we're a new airline
2) It's OK because ALPA sucks/it's ALPA's fault I lost my pension/job or insert other anti-ALPA sentiment
3) It's OK because I get to be home every night
4) It's OK because we have a great relationship with management
5) It's OK because it's a quick upgrade
6) It's OK because we don't fly to the places your airline flies to

I might have missed a couple.

Excellent post.

How about this one?:

7) It's OK because I got 6,000 stock options.

 

[ualdriver]

Excellent post.

How about this one?:

7) It's OK because I got 6,000 stock options.

Oh yes, thanks Chef. I forgot about that guy from Skybus who kept saying that.

 

[clickclickboom]

I got my 6000 stock options from Blue at $12 a share so screw you guys I'm rich just look at todays quote !!

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think you're wasting your time. And I think you told me that once, too, when I was going 'round and 'round with the "our low wages don't/won't bring other airlines' wages" Allegiant guy

I've learned from flightinfo.com that's it's OK to massively undercut the prevailing wage as long as it is for the following reasons:

1) It's OK because we're a new airline
2) It's OK because ALPA sucks/it's ALPA's fault I lost my pension/job or insert other anti-ALPA sentiment
3) It's OK because I get to be home every night
4) It's OK because we have a great relationship with management
5) It's OK because it's a quick upgrade
6) It's OK because we don't fly to the places your airline flies to

I might have missed a couple.

I know, I know. What was I thinking?

Never try to teach a pig to sing. Its a waste of your time and it irritates the pig.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I'm not following your logic here.

Obviously.

Until then your argument is about 4 years too early IMHO.

Then let me make it perfectly clear for you.

1. Your highest paid Captain TODAY makes $100 an hour.

2. That rate is 35% below what our highest paid Captain makes TODAY.

3. We're negotiating a new contract TODAY.

4. Our managment says, "TODAY our biggest competitor is Virgin America. TODAY they have a 30% labor cost advantage. In order to compete with that labor cost advantage TODAY we want you to either take pay cuts OR reduce the cost of your benefits. That way we can compete with Virgin America TODAY on an equal playing field."

Its all about TODAY, Ace. You and your buddies are undercutting my contract TODAY.

Thanks for nothing.

 

[Laboule]

Do you guys have anything else in life to do besides post in-the-dark opinions polluted with bad grammar? Have you thought about getting a woman or a non-aviation hobby? Dare to dream, enroll at your local junior college and work on that "I'll do it someday" degree or even graduate degree? Wow! Perhaps volunteer, stare at the wall, anything?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Oh yes, thanks Chef. I forgot about that guy from Skybus who kept saying that.

Yeah, JB did the same thing. It was officially part of our "retirement" plan, that is until the stock dropped off a f-ing cliff. On our last pay and benefits review, they said that stock options were not considered or reviewed because they stopped giving them to pilots a year or so ago.

Poof! There went a part of our "retirement plan".

I have 9,000 at 12.74 -- hahahahaha.

Let me guess, many VA pilots went there thinking there was fortune and glory in those stock options.

I am in the severe minority (at JB) when I say that my own company (and pilot group) is part of the problem, and that now is the time (better late than never) to take charge of our careers and demand a better compensation package from management. Others are more inclined to invoke that snazzy "It's OK" list of yours.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Do you guys have anything else in life to do besides post in-the-dark opinions polluted with bad grammar? Have you thought about getting a woman or a non-aviation hobby? Dare to dream, enroll at your local junior college and work on that "I'll do it someday" degree or even graduate degree? Wow! Perhaps volunteer, stare at the wall, anything?

Yep, perfect grammar.

 

[ualdriver]

Do you guys have anything else in life to do besides post in-the-dark opinions polluted with bad grammar?

Isn't that what internet forums are for?

Have you thought about getting a woman

Women scare me.

or a non-aviation hobby?

I only like airplanes. Right now I'm memorizing the maximum certified take-off gross weights of all Douglas aircraft build between 1921 and 1967 before McDonnell polluted the company. I'm hoping that knowledge will help me with the "Have you thought about getting a woman" statement above. Chicks dig that kind of stuff, right?

Dare to dream, enroll at your local junior college and work on that "I'll do it someday" degree or even graduate degree? Wow!

I can't get accepted to a junior college or a graduate degree program because my grammar is bad and when I have assignments to write, they tend to be in the dark, overly opinionated, and therefore graded poorly.

Perhaps volunteer, stare at the wall, anything?

I'm staring at a flat screen monitor. It's kind like a wall. But with pretty colors.

Oh crap. Wait a minute. Was that a serious post Laboule? Because if it was, I'm going to have to change my answers. Except the part about being scared of women. That part is serious.