Virgin America down to 22 million in unrestricted cash

[waveflyer]

By the way, class act Ualdriver for bringing the jumpseat into it. I'm sure your commuters who depend on LCCs love the way you characterized that. Way to show your ass.

 

[NEDude]

You can argue semantics all you want. Every carrier has some aspects of its contract that are better than other. JetBlue pays significantly higher than United, but United has some better retirement benefits. Continental has bad work rules but a better B-plan. So really who is undercutting who? Is JetBlue undercutting United because its retirement is worse, or is United undercutting JetBlue because its pay rates are far less?

Yes, Virgin America, and the other start-ups are the reason the industry is in shambles. It has nothing to do with all of the outsourcing to regionals due to the scope you have caved on over the last fifteen years, it has nothing to do with repeated bankruptcies and terrible management, it has nothing to weak unions and the selling out of junior pilots.

Guess what, we have de-regulation, and have since 1978. Hundreds of start-ups have come and gone in that time. Are all of the pilots who have been hired by a start-up since 1978 to blame? So the Continental 777 captain who was hired by People Express back in the 1980s to blame? Is the recently laid off captain from Midwest to blame because he got hired when the company was a start-up in the 1980s? How about those USAirways guys who took a chance on a new Phoenix based start-up back in 1982, are they to blame? How about the guys who got their career jump started flying RJs for United Express carrier ACA, then ended up flying an Airbus in direct competition of United for Independence Air? Where do you draw the line with who gets a free pass at working for a start-up and who doesn't?

Tell me this, why should an unemployed pilot pass on a job with a start-up? Is it better that I take a job with a regional that is flying direct mainline replacement aircraft for half the pay? Should I remain on unemployment to benefit you?

 

[BeachBummer]

FYI, United narrowbody pilots were making over $200 an hour until Mr. Tilton took them Chapter 11, IMPOSED the $129 an hour jetBlue rate and terminated their A plan to match the jetBlue retirement program.

THAT, my friend, is exactly what he means by undercutting.

Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.

So, not really jetblue, and VA ect... more managments inability to run a company? Or, maybe they ran the company into BK for the sole purpose of busting the contracts? The board of directors never had that thought?
That's deffinately all the LCC faults... deffinately


Have yyou seen my baseball??

Your job is to make as much $$ as you can and managment's job is to keep you from making it while providing the product.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Speaking as one of those 10 year JetBlue captains, I would gladly trade my pay scale for United's entire contract right now, no questions asked. The pay scale is the least of the issues. We're otherwise naked. I already have to bank the entire raise against a career disaster (and pay taxes on it), so it's not a bargain.

Man, its refreshing to read an honest post. I suppose its easier to be honest once the bloom is off the rose. As you say, airline QoL goes WAY beyond pay rates.

JetBlue would like to include - you guessed it! - Virgin America's rates into the mix this year. Which offsets large gains by Southwest and the COLA's from everyone else. I guess those awesome "average rates" will be reduced by inflation for a while, since we can't expect any more gains as long as you're in the mix. Thanks again.

Again, exactly right. If you don't think EVERY airline manager looks at the lowest pay rate and tries to drive your rate to that level, then you are seriously in need of a reality check. As long as there are pilots willing to lowball the rest of us, the race to the bottom continues.

BTW, fubi, you were right. (That hurt to say.)

I know. I'm sorry.

Our 2001 rates, better than the starter 1999 rates but still low, that were OK for a few years to keep us on our feet after 9/11 turned out to be permanent until we had our first union vote. I don't think too many pilots at JetBlue would give this much slack for this long if we had the chance for a do-over, particularly in regards to the E190 rates. Hey, VA pilots, learn from our experience! You wanted JetBlue-lite, you've got it! Wake up! You're being played!

On one hand, its GREAT that jetBlue pilots have made progress. The flip side to that coin is you now have a better understanding of what happens to all of us when the lowballers become the current darlings of airline managers. And if you think VA is bad, at least they don't have a sliding pay scale like Allegiant. God help us all if THAT concept gains any traction.

 

[nimtz]

Compare the whole pay package. Add in B and C fund and quality of medical coverage. Now we are at about the same pay package. Then remember that UAL's contract was negotiated with the BK gun to our head. If you and others are happy to to have the same pay package as a bankruptcy contract then we have nothing to look forward to in this industry!

Ditto! Using just hourly pay rate as ur only comparison is as smart as counting per diem as your compensation. I guess in the new airline world no one needs a retirement plan. Guess 401K and social security will do.:erm:

 

[Mr.B]

I am sorry that you have to deal with the reality of a free market. The country we live in encourages start-ups and free enterprise. That means new companies and new ideas.

FYI A five year JetBlue A320 captain makes $145/hr, a ten year A320 captain makes $155. The same rates for a United A320 captain are $128 and $134 respectively. Why are you lowering the bar and complaining that other are doing the same thing? Okay for you but not for others huh?

Dont forget about the extra 16% the UAL guy gets into his B fund.

 

[AA717driver]

They'll be around the block a bit longer than you will, FWIW.

Do you know something about my health I don't know?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm an independent contractor--I work for the best deal that's out there for ME. That's why I had high hopes for VA.

Had they paid more for CA, I would have gone there in a heartbeat. I had the opportunity.

They started with a clean sheet and hired some really good people and a lot of very bad people. If it's so good in Flt. Ops. why did Joe leave?

The original CKA cadre has been discussed here.

Anyway, no one's here forever. No airline is here forever. None of us should ever get too comfortable. I've got too many friends there for me to hope for VA's failure. I'm hoping the people trying to clean it up will succeed.

TC

 

[Scope out RJ's]

If you guys are such pro union socialists, why do such a majority of you vote republican?

Because it's smarter than voting socialist. Too bad common sense isn't more common for idiots like you.

These types of posts are why UAL pilots are so universally hated and thought of as arrogant and smug.

Wait, I thought you said it was the Delta pilots? This is laughable coming from a southwest pilot! I'd love to find one of you pft skirts in the terminal to tell you what I think of your arrogance, but I don't get to Albany or Wichita. The southwest pilot group had to pay for training and had some of the lowest wages and work rules out there 15 years ago. They continue to charge their employees to work there.
Amazing you show your cocky arrogance towards the F9 and Airtran pilots by telling them how lucky they'd be to be part of "your culture"......
And you got the balls to call anyone smug?
Wasn't swapa A catalyst for age 65?

You take no responsibility for your own situation. YOU didn't stand up to outsourcing. YOU keep showing up for work. Most of YOU vote republican, and by so doing- undercut your unions efforts.

I'm sure Keith Olbermann and Jon Steward keep telling you that. Try watching something other than msnbc and spongebob to learn about the way politics works. It clouds what little brains you have.

Ualdriver - you didn't say regional pay caused your paycut but I am.

Says the guy who bought his job!

Connect the dots- Virgin pay is substantially better than regional pay. Regionals will never have leverage to get great contracts- bc if they do, they'll be downsized and some other operator will be built up from nothing. (Regionals competing for contracts within a brand, is a much worse thing than a stand alone brand entering a market trying to get a foothold and competing.)

Of course, southwest did the same exact thing!

Regional pilots get NO vote to how much flying gets sent to them. ALPA pilots do vote- and blame bankruptcies all you want, but it's a bs excuse- you guys were selling out my generation long before the BKs-

Wow, are you truly this stupid? You're beyond help. Don't worry, Barry, Harry, and Nancy will be there to take care of you. Of course when your company goes through bankruptcy, I can't wait to see you eat these words!

Bottom line- you thought you could sell out your junior pilots and that would not come back to haunt you- LCCs pay what it takes to attract qualified pilots to their airlines.

Keep telling yourself that. I'm guessing that age 65, supported by swapa is doing wonders by keeping you a junior f/o for 5 more years while the senior guys hang on making the top $$.

Bc of regionals that ALPA pilots negotiated into existence- they have more than enough to draw from the regionals at their rates.

United and delta and all alpa carriers are far more responsible for the state of the industry than anything VA has done.

Laughable. Especially coming from a group that has done far more damage than good to this industry, and continues to do that damage.
Bring your money, it's on!

 

[waveflyer]

Sorry scope- I just don't care what you have to say. You've proven there's no argument in your rants - just attempts at disrespect

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Sorry scope- I just don't care what you have to say. You've proven there's no argument in your rants - just attempts at disrespect

Then take some of that money you bought your job with and buy yourself a clue sport!