Virgin America down to 22 million in unrestricted cash

[ABUSED PILOT]

You made my point.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Well, why you enjoy that... I'll go to work and enjoy my job, enjoy getting laid and enjoy the extra years the no stress and laugh lines this job gives me- and enjoy kicking your butts in the free market. See, I'm not scared of competition, whether it's from VA or any ALPA sellouts. Your problems are all yours- and you pay for them every day-

Good luck, I'm out- gotta get to those situps so your wives can keep eyeing me

Wave, shut your hole.... Kicking our butts? Worldwide baby...Worldwide!! You are trying to compare apples to the whole orchard pal!!

All this from the tough guy who just got VNAV....

Pathetic! Guys like you crack me up.....brand new F/O with a tude thinking he's king of the world.....Typical ex-RJ pilot with SJS who bought a type and got the "job". You can rant when you go south of 24.00.00 or East of Bangor.... or even when you get served a meal onboard Skippy!

 

[waveflyer]

Wave, shut your hole.... Kicking our butts? Worldwide baby...Worldwide!! You are trying to compare apples to the whole orchard pal!!

All this from the tough guy who just got VNAV....

Pathetic! Guys like you crack me up.....brand new F/O with a tude thinking he's king of the world.....Typical ex-RJ pilot with SJS who bought a type and got the "job". You can rant when you go south of 24.00.00 or East of Bangor.... or even when you get served a meal onboard Skippy!

Ummm... I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there....

Sorry coolcat if I'm a LOT happier working the throttles in a -300 than when I was watching vnav at my legacy- sorry to bust your pride sellout but southwest isn't even close to my first gig in this business.. I speak from experience.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Ummm... I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there....

Good thing for you, nobody really cares what garbage your nut drainer spews!

Sorry coolcat if I'm a LOT happier working the throttles in a -300 than when I was watching vnav at my legacy- sorry to bust your pride sellout but southwest isn't even close to my first gig in this business.. I speak from experience.

So just how many jobs have you bought sport?
Sellout? Funny coming from some southwest puke who bought his job and supported age 65?

 

[hyflyin]

Police barred from penis enlargement

(Reuters) - Forget about getting a job as a police officer in Indonesia's Papua if you have had your penis enlarged. You won't get it, according to local media reports citing the Papua police chief.

I was going to quit flying and apply for a police job, but now they won't let me. Guess I will have to keep "flying for free".

 

[waveflyer]

Oh yeah- sellout

There's very few Virgin pilots I respect less than your average ALPA sellout. Funny how you defend alpa mainline with a name like yours scope

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Oh yeah- sellout

There's very few Virgin pilots I respect less than your average ALPA sellout. Funny how you defend alpa mainline with a name like yours scope

Funny how some swapa doosh bag can call anyone a sellout, coming from a pilot group that endorses both paying for their job, and age 65!

 

[waveflyer]

Rings hollow man...
Fix your scope issues before you point fingers at anyone else. Your selling out is how VA can get away with paying so little. No matter how often you beat your swa pft drum, the truth of how much your scope issues have hurt this profession will always drown it out.

If you guys show any interest in doing the right thing I'll support you 100%- as long as you're track record of selling out the junior guys for an extra few percent keeps on- I will have no problem calling you what you ALPA sellouts are.

 

[mvedepo]

Sorry....nm

 

[Tomct]

Virgin, or any airline who gives away seats, is a cancer to this industry. It it is corporate irresponsibility that has wrecked our profession and left the industry drowning in debt. Nothing against Virgin pilots but their demise would be beneficial to the overall industry. Their model is simply not sustainable and the dumping of capacity on to the marketplace serves to undermine the long-term viability of our business.

Actually, they should have let United and US Air go out of business LONG AGO! But hey, they can't do that...because then their Senators/Congressman would lose their cushy jobs in DC.

 

[Tomct]

You're right. VA (so far) isn't responsible (that I know of) for anyone else's pay, work rules, etc., going down further. Further, I don't believe the regionals have necessarily driven down wages- they've simply just caused mainline jobs to disappear. Mainline pilots of the 1990's are responsible for that. Find a post where I lay the blame of mainline pay erosion on the regionals. You won't find it.

Now I also believe that even if the mainline pilots of the 1990's had been able to predict the future and somehow know how the regional airline would grow and replace mainline flying, it wouldn't have just delayed the inevitable. During the bankruptcies of the 2000's, airline management would have gotten the regional jets they wanted anyway.

But again, you miss the point. Have you ever heard of the saying "Those that forget history are doomed to repeat the past?". Those of us that lived through the last downward spiral are well aware of the role the LCC's played in that destruction. Wages got dragged down, pensions lost, work rules trashed because mainline pilots couldn't compete with a Jetblue pilot making half what a United pilot was making. And of course, the JetBlue, Frontier, whoever, pilots of the time all told us how they were small, only had "30" airplanes, etc. Then a few years later, they have a 100 airplanes and are massively undercutting us.

So when you wonder why airlines like VA are held in such contempt, why many of us hate having you on our jumpseat, why you read snide remarks about VA on forums such as this, you know why. Many of us already have heard all the excuses before. We already have seen the damage "small" undercutting airlines have done in the past and don't want to be "doomed" to repeat it again, especially when many of us are in contract negotiations and are trying to lift the bar back up, of course with absolutely no help from VA pilots.

So I'll leave the last sentences to the two of you as the words I have typed above are nothing new. I already have read the rationalizations that will follow 10 years ago when they were typed by shiny, new JetBlue, Valujet, and Frontier pilots. I'm done.

Funny, there are quite a few EX-YoNited pilots over here at VA, and THEY COULD NOT BE HAPPIER! Just worry about what is going to happen to your own company....and HOPE you keep your job with the merger on your doorstep. Otherwise, I am sure you will be trying to get a job here at VA. GOOD LUCK!

 

[hyflyin]

You're right. VA (so far) isn't responsible (that I know of) for anyone else's pay, work rules, etc., going down further. Further, I don't believe the regionals have necessarily driven down wages- they've simply just caused mainline jobs to disappear. Mainline pilots of the 1990's are responsible for that. Find a post where I lay the blame of mainline pay erosion on the regionals. You won't find it.

Now I also believe that even if the mainline pilots of the 1990's had been able to predict the future and somehow know how the regional airline would grow and replace mainline flying, it wouldn't have just delayed the inevitable. During the bankruptcies of the 2000's, airline management would have gotten the regional jets they wanted anyway.

But again, you miss the point. Have you ever heard of the saying "Those that forget history are doomed to repeat the past?". Those of us that lived through the last downward spiral are well aware of the role the LCC's played in that destruction. Wages got dragged down, pensions lost, work rules trashed because mainline pilots couldn't compete with a Jetblue pilot making half what a United pilot was making. And of course, the JetBlue, Frontier, whoever, pilots of the time all told us how they were small, only had "30" airplanes, etc. Then a few years later, they have a 100 airplanes and are massively undercutting us.

So when you wonder why airlines like VA are held in such contempt, why many of us hate having you on our jumpseat, why you read snide remarks about VA on forums such as this, you know why. Many of us already have heard all the excuses before. We already have seen the damage "small" undercutting airlines have done in the past and don't want to be "doomed" to repeat it again, especially when many of us are in contract negotiations and are trying to lift the bar back up, of course with absolutely no help from VA pilots.

So I'll leave the last sentences to the two of you as the words I have typed above are nothing new. I already have read the rationalizations that will follow 10 years ago when they were typed by shiny, new JetBlue, Valujet, and Frontier pilots. I'm done.

"Those that forget history are doomed to repeat the past?"

God I hope so, JB and SWA are two great airlines!! With might I add, pay scales that are improving all the time.

Looking forward to the future!!!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Rings hollow man...

Rings little man..........

Fix your scope issues before you point fingers at anyone else.

Fix your pft issues before lecturing anyone else.

Your selling out is how VA can get away with paying so little.

10 years ago, sw was the laughing stock with their pay and work rules. I can't wait to see what another 10 will bring. The pompous attitudes of little dick people like you is what is most laughable!

No matter how often you beat your swa pft drum, the truth of how much your scope issues have hurt this profession will always drown it out.

PFT was only the tip of the berg junior. Your lousy work rules, and support, and being the catalyst of age 65 are just 2 more to name some others. That beatin you hear is not of a drum, but the bed post in your old lady's trailer!

If you guys show any interest in doing the right thing I'll support you 100%-

Looking at your track record with the F9 and AT guys, I'll not look forward to anything from the pft crowd.

as long as you're track record of selling out the junior guys for an extra few percent keeps on- I will have no problem calling you what you ALPA sellouts are.

I'll take that as a compliment coming from a group where age 65 has done far more damage from the senior guys than any scope sellout could have done. Save your breath for any additional comebacks sport, you'll need it later for your inflatable date!

 

[Skyboy722]

age 65 has done far more damage from the senior guys than any scope sellout could have done. !

Wow, dude.... While I will say that I fricken <<<HATE>>> age 65, The above statement is pure idiocy.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Wow, dude.... While I will say that I fricken <<<HATE>>> age 65, The above statement is pure idiocy.

Not really. How many careers have been stagnated because of age 65 at both the regionals and majors? How many fourloughs would there be at UAL or CAL had age 60 been in place? At the expense of who? The real senior folks get to stay in their seat for another 5 years.
Scope has only harmed mainline. Age 65 has harmed everyone!

 

[waveflyer]

Scope has hurt everyone, the least of which is the mainline pilot who got to stay on the property. Youre an absolute idiot.

 

[redflyer65]

Hey Scope,

EVERYONE would be stagnate at a major if you guys hadn't opened the floodgate on the RJ's. Pilots at every major have been damaged because of it.

 

[waveflyer]

The problem with guys who think like scope is that everything is relative. There isn't an objective reality in his world to compare work rules and pay. It's something pilots have been awful at.

When contracts were good- Southwest was the bain of the industry b/c they paid less- forgetting the fact that they still earned much more than the average professional in the world that we pay mortgages to. IN the regional world and post BK major contracts, noone compares the crappy wages to the rest of society. My regional pays WELL in the first year - We make $27/hour vs skywest's $20/ hour. Meanwhile it still doesn't buy much in the real world. I made $30k in my first year at an alpa major- that's crap money- and i mean absolutely stupid.

I made $70k in my first year at SW.

Whatever southwest used to be- they have a long standing history of happy and healthy employees who enjoy their job. We can compare penis's if you like, but the obsession with hating southwest doesn't do any of us any good.

A c-student accountant will do better financially than the average pilot across the industry these days. That is a more important point than whether or not one airline's pilots are doing slightly better or worse than another airline's pilots.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

The problem with guys who think like scope is that everything is relative. There isn't an objective reality in his world to compare work rules and pay. It's something pilots have been awful at.

Says the kid who paid for his job! That's hysterical coming from a group that's notorious for selling out the junior guys!

When contracts were good- Southwest was the bain of the industry b/c they paid less- forgetting the fact that they still earned much more than the average professional in the world that we pay mortgages to.

Keep telling yourself that. It's that same kind of mentality that allows places like skybus and va to prosper. Of course you paid for your job, so there's no surprise there.

IN the regional world and post BK major contracts, noone compares the crappy wages to the rest of society. My regional pays WELL in the first year - We make $27/hour vs skywest's $20/ hour. Meanwhile it still doesn't buy much in the real world. I made $30k in my first year at an alpa major- that's crap money- and i mean absolutely stupid.

Yet paying for you job makes absolute sense.
You are a complete idiot.

I made $70k in my first year at SW.

Yeah, we know about your special services you provide during your layovers.....:blush:

Whatever southwest used to be- they have a long standing history of happy and healthy employees who enjoy their job. We can compare penis's if you like, but the obsession with hating southwest doesn't do any of us any good.

I don't hate southwest, just loudmouth little peckerheads like you who spout their nut drainers about how everyone else ruined the industry, without looking in the mirror at his own group.

A c-student accountant will do better financially than the average pilot across the industry these days. That is a more important point than whether or not one airline's pilots are doing slightly better or worse than another airline's pilots.

Actually the average "union" garbage/truck driver will...............

 

[ultrarunner]

I had to pay for a 4-year college education to even apply to major airlines in the day. And here on FI I'm JUST NOW learning that I'm a low-life because I paid to play... I'm devastated.....

Thanks alot!


Off to find a therapist.....wish me luck in my recovery....

 

[Bavarian Chef]

You're right. VA (so far) isn't responsible (that I know of) for anyone else's pay, work rules, etc., going down further. Further, I don't believe the regionals have necessarily driven down wages- they've simply just caused mainline jobs to disappear. Mainline pilots of the 1990's are responsible for that. Find a post where I lay the blame of mainline pay erosion on the regionals. You won't find it.

Now I also believe that even if the mainline pilots of the 1990's had been able to predict the future and somehow know how the regional airline would grow and replace mainline flying, it wouldn't have just delayed the inevitable. During the bankruptcies of the 2000's, airline management would have gotten the regional jets they wanted anyway.

But again, you miss the point. Have you ever heard of the saying "Those that forget history are doomed to repeat the past?". Those of us that lived through the last downward spiral are well aware of the role the LCC's played in that destruction. Wages got dragged down, pensions lost, work rules trashed because mainline pilots couldn't compete with a Jetblue pilot making half what a United pilot was making. And of course, the JetBlue, Frontier, whoever, pilots of the time all told us how they were small, only had "30" airplanes, etc. Then a few years later, they have a 100 airplanes and are massively undercutting us.

So when you wonder why airlines like VA are held in such contempt, why many of us hate having you on our jumpseat, why you read snide remarks about VA on forums such as this, you know why. Many of us already have heard all the excuses before. We already have seen the damage "small" undercutting airlines have done in the past and don't want to be "doomed" to repeat it again, especially when many of us are in contract negotiations and are trying to lift the bar back up, of course with absolutely no help from VA pilots.

So I'll leave the last sentences to the two of you as the words I have typed above are nothing new. I already have read the rationalizations that will follow 10 years ago when they were typed by shiny, new JetBlue, Valujet, and Frontier pilots. I'm done.

Excellent post.

Listening to the VA story (and VA pilot defense mechanisms) brings up some indigestion from the same exact JB story 10 years ago.

 

[front9]

hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
3 : Bavarian Chef
4 : Ualdriver
— hypocrite adjective

 

[waveflyer]

Ualdriver-
actually I DO make the point that regional wages have helped deteriorate mainline wages-it's basic divide and conquer. Follow the trail again- regional pilots have no leverage bc of HOW their market is set up- if one regional gets toostrong, demands too much- it is shrunk and another company is built up to replace it- these regional pilots get no vote or representation among the brands that fly on their tail- they get no vote to how much flying gets outsourced- they are the very definition of disenfranchised-

Now VA is being built (or jBlu) - Rey need pilots- there are thousands of rj captains proficient in jets, glass, fms, and 121 ops. Nothing VA is doing is anything that these rj capts haven't been doing for years-

VA now only needs to pay enough to attract pilots away from regionals. They will fill classes with no problem as long as they pay just enough more than the regionals that mainline pilots created and allowed. And if you're a more qualified furloughee or layed off from a bk carrier- you have to take the wage bc VA and you know that there are plenty of rj capts for whom VA actually IS a real step up.

Now VA wages help drive down wages at mainline and it all comes full circle.

Scope relief is an insidious bastard.

 

[mvedepo]

I don't think you guys realize that our classes are not filled with RJ drivers. There are a few yes, but our most recent classes have been predominately Midwest, ATA, and Aloha. Competitive time right now is around 12,000 - 14,000 hours. So don't think that people are coming here to fly "the big jets."

 

[thruthemurk]

I don't think you guys realize that our classes are not filled with RJ drivers. There are a few yes, but our most recent classes have been predominately Midwest, ATA, and Aloha. Competitive time right now is around 12,000 - 14,000 hours. So don't think that people are coming here to fly "the big jets."

All of whom made more at their old jobs. They arent coming to VA for the awesome opportunity. How bout 3 years ago?

 

[mvedepo]

"Awesome opportunity" is a relative term. Yes they were making more at their last carrier. But every single one that I know here is happy as hell to be here and thankful that this "awesome opportunity" was available to them.

As for 3 years ago we were hiring mostly USAir, JetBlue, USA3000, etc. They weren't loading up in regional guys. They were looking for guys with good experience due to the fast upgrade.

And besides, what wrong with RJ guys? Last I checked the elitist "legacy" carriers filled their new hire classes predominately with "lowly" RJ pilots. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander right?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
3 : Bavarian Chef
4 : Ualdriver
— hypocrite adjective

In your eyes. But I didn't come here ten years ago (more like 5). I am willing to admit what JB pilots have done (and continue to do) to the industry. Always have on this board.

But instead of quitting, or go somewhere else, I voted last year, and will vote again.

We are taking it back (or were).

Don't get all emotional about an anonymous internet post, Sally.

 

[jetbluedog]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_02/b4210064436433.htm

VA is going to flop in 2011 - that's my prediction with BO still in office.

"If something happens—and something always seems to happen in this industry, whether it's fuel prices or war or SARS—they're in trouble."

 

[ATRCA]

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_02/b4210064436433.htm

VA is going to flop in 2011 - that's my prediction with BO still in office.

"If something happens—and something always seems to happen in this industry, whether it's fuel prices or war or SARS—they're in trouble."

Wow, nice job. You resurrected an old thread that postulated the looming demise of VA....................except that VA is still operating business as usual. What's the point again?

Oh, that's right. The point is that VA is "nearing it's end" just like B6 has been for what??? close to a decade now??

NEWS FLASH!! We're all going out of business, some just faster than others!

Nothing to see here........

 

[Ex737Driver]

Wow, nice job. You resurrected an old thread that postulated the looming demise of VA....................except that VA is still operating business as usual. What's the point again?

Oh, that's right. The point is that VA is "nearing it's end" just like B6 has been for what??? close to a decade now??

NEWS FLASH!! We're all going out of business, some just faster than others!

Nothing to see here........

Exactly............If I had a nickel for every CEO that said we were going to turn a profit this year..........