Agreed, there most likely will be nothing to see here very soon. Despite your rant, VX is nothing like B6. Completely different environment. Have you even read the article or just like to call everyone haters if they agree the company may not, gasp, make it? They have very little pricing power, very little cash flow, very little cash available, a ton of debt, and very impatient investors. Take a look at their fares. NY-SFO/LAX markets are $130 each way. DFW the same. Yes, the cabin experience is good and FAs nice to look at, but the majors, southwest, etc. also have WiFi plus a much, much better frequent flyer program with the ability to fly anywhere in the world, which is what most high revenue pax like.
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Virgin America down to 22 million in unrestricted cash
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Agreed, there most likely will be nothing to see here very soon. Despite your rant, VX is nothing like B6. Completely different environment. Have you even read the article or just like to call everyone haters if they agree the company may not, gasp, make it? They have very little pricing power, very little cash flow, very little cash available, a ton of debt, and very impatient investors. Take a look at their fares. NY-SFO/LAX markets are $130 each way. DFW the same. Yes, the cabin experience is good and FAs nice to look at, but the majors, southwest, etc. also have WiFi plus a much, much better frequent flyer program with the ability to fly anywhere in the world, which is what most high revenue pax like.
Whatever dude, have it your way. It matters little to me. I did read the article. I also read articles that assured the solvency of Bear Stearns.
If VA ceases to operate you'll have your day while the rest of us continue working for our pink slips. Today's dominant airline is next decades carcass. I have no idea what will happen to VA, I just know that you don't either.
UAL's been going broke for 10 years. There are 3 dozen threads on this board alone with calendars marking the date.....yet here they are, profitable no less (if you believe that).
I'm not cheerleading for the demise of anyone at this point. What goes around DOES come around in this industry.
Man, you're like the little engine that could. Try taking some emotion out of your IMC world.
"IMC World" What's that? Is that some CFII message board where you tell the chic's about your 73 type? I must have missed it, do tell.
And yes, I'm arguing pointlessly with you for entertainment. Thread drift and mudslinging is the goal here.....
Tomct
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- 2,062
Well, I bet 100 to 1 that we are STILL here and getting bigger by the month! But hey, keep those well wishes coming, I mean, now that VA is here, there is no more mud-slinging at JB. Pretty Pathetic! Hope you have a Happy New Year too there buddy. Ya Deuche!!
Nothing like another fellow pilot bashing a similar airline, and predicting they will be out of business... tbh having this guy "fly" for JB is an embarrassment to other JB pilots.
Don't work for either airline, but would never wish for another pilot to be out of a job.
Yep-if they can live while paying industry standard wages and aren't artifically propped up and can compete with profitable fares without dumping $139 coast-coast-capacity, then great. It's a free country, however. Funny how people bash the regionals for replacing major airline flying and yet, some here don't see the similarities here. How is this venture any different than Skybus or Mesa? If the upgrade there was 10 years, they wouldn't see a soul applying.
xjhawk
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I can agree with you on this statement. I see some of my fellow pilots who say they would like so and so to fail so they can fly their routes and their planes. Then they are the first to complain when they get laid off. remember that rule you learned in first grade. Treat others how you would like to be treated. I like the Virgin GROUPS corporate attitude and can see that no virgin company has ever failed. Do I want to see non american ownership of our domestic airlines-no. But what is a public company? Can foreign nationals buy stock? Do you trust the american leadership who ran US Airways or United into the ground? I would trust branson more than tilten a guy like that. I knew some guys in the UK who all loved their jobs and they all worked for the Virgin group. I see that same corp culture in Virgin America. I would buy stock in Virgin and I would work there-but I would like to see better pay there. I have my resume in there, it would be better to work there than any regional. I just wish I would get a call to come interview but my over 5k total hours and greater than 1000 hours PIC jet must not be enough. Are there any former mesaba guys there who can open a door for me?
I agree with you on all points. But keep in mind, in all industries, someone is always going to come into practice that bucks the status quo. Before Virgin we had Skybus, before that we had Tower Air, and yet before that we had Peoples Express, and dozens between those mentioned! Like many before it looks like Virgin will have its day. As said earlier I dont want anyone to lose their job but Virgin has been a sore spot for labor for several years now. If they go away we can corrrect capacity and possibly raise some fares. More money in the coffers means healthier operations which positions our labor groups to ask for more money.
Virgin America will be sold to Jetblue in 90 days...you heard it here first!
Virgin Atlantic is in the final phases of being sold....Virgin Mobile sold to T Mobile...Virgin Records sold an shut down....Virgin Cola gone!
The Virgin brand is being carved up and sold off...Branson is bleeding cash world wide in this global recession and he has no choice but to sell to the walls and preserve cash.
And this moron is still dumping money in space tourism? Good luck fellows.
Virgin Atlantic is in the final phases of being sold....Virgin Mobile sold to T Mobile...Virgin Records sold an shut down....Virgin Cola gone!
The Virgin brand is being carved up and sold off...Branson is bleeding cash world wide in this global recession and he has no choice but to sell to the walls and preserve cash.
And this moron is still dumping money in space tourism? Good luck fellows.
waveflyer
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I love all the "capitalists" here-
I don't mind new entrants- but youre damn right I'm working and competing and doing my small part to put them out of business-
It's why 1st year pay is so awful in our industry. One shouldn't work for just one company their whole life in a capitalistic society and we've set it up that except for those who work for a good few companies will be punished severely for changing companies when that's what a capitalistic system strives for
I don't mind new entrants- but youre damn right I'm working and competing and doing my small part to put them out of business-
It's why 1st year pay is so awful in our industry. One shouldn't work for just one company their whole life in a capitalistic society and we've set it up that except for those who work for a good few companies will be punished severely for changing companies when that's what a capitalistic system strives for
Nope... It's Spirit.
Just curious, could you please post a link to the information you provided? I think Virgin is involved in close to 400 different companies, and I have not read anything indicating that Branson is "bleeding cash world wide".
Thanks in advance,
S
Virgin Atlantic suffers £132million loss as demand falls
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:49 PM on 30th July 2010
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ar...2million-loss-demand-falls.html#ixzz1A2YpTpff
Thanks, but I fail to see how you drew your conclusion(s) from that article...
Regards,
S
BILL LUMBERG
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I'm trying to figure out where it says a capitalist makes you buy your way into an interview and job by paying for your own training. I figure you must be part of the problem then......
I just love how you preach from on high o wise one!
Ralph Cramden
Took the Red Pill
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NEDude
yada yada yada
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Sorry to disappoint you all, but Richard Branson does not own Virgin America. He is an investor, and owns the brand, but is not the "owner", or even a majority shareholder. The multiple investigations by the DOT and lawsuits filed other airlines have pretty well cleared that up. If a handful of Branson's other companies are struggling, that does not mean it is tied to Virgin America. I mean what on earth does the failure of a soft drink company in Europe have to do with an airline in the USA other than sharing a logo?
As for making money, last financial report available shows Virgin America made money in the 3rd quarter, in fact significantly more money than the "experts" predicted they would make. The predictions were at best small operating profit but an overall net loss. The results were a significant operating profit (for an airline with 28 aircraft at the time) and an overall net profit as well.
Virgin increased its cash position in the third quarter and has over $100 million in total liquidity.
The original business plan did not call for a profitable quarter until over 40 aircraft were on property, the company beat that.
I have been around several failing airlines and I can tell you with absolute certainty that failing companies do not announce orders for new aircraft, announce new cities, ramp up hiring, expand headquarters, and sign contracts on new training facilities. Virgin America has done all of these in the past six months. Failing companies start pulling out of cities, deferring deliveries, postponing classes, consolidating office space, and cutting corners wherever possible. Those are clearly not the actions of Virgin America.
As for the mood of the investors, how many of you have had conversations with the Virgin America investors lately? They are a privately held company and I would wager very few, if anyone at all, on this board even know the names of the major investors, let alone know them well enough to have conversations about their feelings on their investment in the company.
As for making money, last financial report available shows Virgin America made money in the 3rd quarter, in fact significantly more money than the "experts" predicted they would make. The predictions were at best small operating profit but an overall net loss. The results were a significant operating profit (for an airline with 28 aircraft at the time) and an overall net profit as well.
Virgin increased its cash position in the third quarter and has over $100 million in total liquidity.
The original business plan did not call for a profitable quarter until over 40 aircraft were on property, the company beat that.
I have been around several failing airlines and I can tell you with absolute certainty that failing companies do not announce orders for new aircraft, announce new cities, ramp up hiring, expand headquarters, and sign contracts on new training facilities. Virgin America has done all of these in the past six months. Failing companies start pulling out of cities, deferring deliveries, postponing classes, consolidating office space, and cutting corners wherever possible. Those are clearly not the actions of Virgin America.
As for the mood of the investors, how many of you have had conversations with the Virgin America investors lately? They are a privately held company and I would wager very few, if anyone at all, on this board even know the names of the major investors, let alone know them well enough to have conversations about their feelings on their investment in the company.
Well said.
Grandpa +65
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"I have been around several failing airlines and I can tell you with absolute certainty that failing companies do not announce orders for new aircraft, announce new cities, ramp up hiring, expand headquarters, and sign contracts on new training facilities. Virgin America has done all of these in the past six months."
Skybus does too
http://www.ahoycargo.com/airline-ne...kybus-airlines-on-new-airbus-a319-orders.html
Skybus Announces Richmond-Columbus Service Starting May 23 - News ...
Skybus Announces Richmond-Columbus Service Starting May 23, 2007 ... Richmonders will soon have a nonstop option aboard new 150-seat aircraft ... Skybus has agreements in place to acquire more than 70 aircraft over the next five years. ...
Skybus does too
http://www.ahoycargo.com/airline-ne...kybus-airlines-on-new-airbus-a319-orders.html
Skybus Announces Richmond-Columbus Service Starting May 23 - News ...
Skybus Announces Richmond-Columbus Service Starting May 23, 2007 ... Richmonders will soon have a nonstop option aboard new 150-seat aircraft ... Skybus has agreements in place to acquire more than 70 aircraft over the next five years. ...
No one is ever safe. A more recent company-Mexicana Click Airlines. Read up. They went bankrupt after leasing 717's (ex-Midwest) from Boeing and had big growth plans. All gone within a year. And there was a promising new marketing/business plan of Skybus, the established spin off Independence, Valuejet, Vanguard, Air South, and so on and so on with big plans......and should oil rise as expected, customers will reduce their travel. And don't forget about the many Chapter 11's. No company is safe no matter how much management sugar coats the employees.
.
BILL LUMBERG
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And the most off-topic post to date belongs to RALPH.....WTF?
pssst. Ralph.....hate to tell ya, you aren't a major yet....no matter what Sir Richard says!
"I have been around several failing airlines and I can tell you with absolute certainty that failing companies do not announce orders for new aircraft, announce new cities, ramp up hiring, expand headquarters, and sign contracts on new training facilities. Virgin America has done all of these in the past six months."
Skybus does too
http://www.ahoycargo.com/airline-ne...kybus-airlines-on-new-airbus-a319-orders.html
Skybus Announces Richmond-Columbus Service Starting May 23 - News ...
Skybus Announces Richmond-Columbus Service Starting May 23, 2007 ... Richmonders will soon have a nonstop option aboard new 150-seat aircraft ... Skybus has agreements in place to acquire more than 70 aircraft over the next five years. ...
Interesting G. They're gone and we are still here, after/during a major recession, taking our orders and firming up more. So to understand your logic, once an airline starts ordering more airplanes, it means they are going out business?? Got it thanks.
I would try a different business school there chief....
I won't pretend to know all about every airline in this industry, unlike most of the hacks on this site, but I do know what's going on at my airline. Will it survive, I don't know, I'm just a pilot, I don't know all their plans.
I'm guessing all the know-it-all's on FI made millions on the recent SWA announcement to merge with AAI?? Then again, probably not.
Good luck in your fantasies and Happy New Year.
Fubijaakr
Seniority is Forever
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How's that SNA service going?
pilotpm
Livin' the dream Baby!
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"Yet" is the opperative word in your statment. I'm glad that you agree that we soon will be.
xjhawk
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Now if only I could get an interview
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