Two people in Aviation with Kids. Does it work?

[capt. megadeth]

Kids should be #1 priority for mom and career put on hold.

Why don't you put your f***ing career on hold?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Our neighborhood is filled with them, as is our church.

Oh Gawd! A church goer....that says it all for me. Now, I definitely don't give a frog's fat a$$ about your opinion Mr. Christian.

 

[FlyUnited]

Observation:

The biggest scumbags, cheaters, and bs artists are the ones who like to talk about their 'church'.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Observation:

The biggest scumbags, cheaters, and bs artists are the ones who like to talk about their 'church'.

Let's not forget the hipocrites too.

 

[HA25]

Why don't you put your f***ing career on hold?

Whether you take the fundamentalist radical right "Christian" view point, or the Darwinist, evolutionary view.... Women were dealt that task. Sorry if that fact gets you angry, but it simply is a fact.

BTW.. I'm Roman Catholic, and not a member of any "Radical" churches.. My views are not any different than my wife either. It's not a man/woman thing, it's life..

 

[capt. megadeth]

Sorry if that fact gets you angry, but it simply is a fact.

BTW.. I'm Roman Catholic, and not a member of any "Radical" churches.. My views are not any different than my wife either. It's not a man/woman thing, it's life..

BAM!!!!!!!!!! Right there! You just said the two magic words. ROMAN CATHOLIC!!! Having grown up Catholic, having gone to a Catholic school for half my life, having been made to go to church until I was 18, I have first hand experience of the hippocracy of the "Catholic" religion. Dude, you don't have to be radical....you just have to say to me that you are Catholic and that's all I need to hear to know that your opinion means NADA to me.

I'm not angry at what your opinion is....you can think what you want. That's great that your wife shares your opinion....what makes me angry is your inability to mind your own business and say that a woman should give up her career and stay home with the kids. Not surprising...typical Catholic which is why I will not get married in a Catholic church, I will not baptize my kid in a Catholic church and if I ever step foot in a Catholic church again it will be too soon.

You have once again shown me why I no longer consider myself Catholic......a bunch of self righteous hippocrites who like to force their views on others saying "God loves everyone" but if you don't do what we want you to do, you are shunned and damned by God. Have a nice life Mr. Catholic.

 

[HA25]

No problem, but keep in mind I do have several atheistic/secular friends who do the same. Darwinism and Evolution/natural selection dictate that in almost all species one of the genders raises the offspring. Usually (99% of the time) it's the female. The Catholic church doesn't per say have any official doctrine on women's roles in child rearing, but the more conservative view taken by most people is that a woman is better suited for it. This would also account for why most elementary school teachers are women.

I hope you don't mind my being frank, but I think that the problem is that women like you seem to find that the natural laws and facts of science are inconvenient to them. They want to believe that woman can do anything, and everything a man can and as well or better. It simply isn't true. Political correctness and laws can be mandated to give the impression that it is, but that's only has the effect of a small band aid over a huge wound.

There are things women can do better and there are things they don't do better.

Just watch the ESPN Fire Fighter challenge to see why men are better suited to be "Firefighters". The 50 year old male fire chiefs get better scores than the super fit 20-30 year old females, and let's not discuss the 20-30 year old males.

Or, watch any sport.. football is obvious, but look even at bowling, or pool, golf, and other less physical sports. Men have different spacial skills that makes them better suited for this kind of stuff. Through out history, the male has been responsible for certain tasks like that of "Hunter/gatherer" and this has lead to evolutional differences in our brains and bodies.

On the other hand, woman have far better reasoning skills, and communication skills.. again due to evolutionary needs.

We can throw the bible and church doctrine out the window, and it still stands on scientific grounds that men are better suited to drive a race car, or fly a plane. This isn't to say that in the statistical bell curve of men vs. women on spacial skills that the 10% outlier of women isn't as good as maybe the 50th percentile of men (or some other model, as I don't have access to the actual data).. but there is data that proves that spacial skills are generally better in males.

there is more here, and a lot of the research is "pay for content" so pay a few $$ and learn.

http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=brainBriefings_genderAndTheBrain

Anyway, hate to get you so upset, but it's just I have a problem in that I always have to call a spade "a spade". I'm so bad at PC..

 

[FlyUnited]

Any woman (or man) who is stupid or weak enough to allow their spouse to demand them to give up their career deserves to be miserable.

If everyone thought like you do, we'd have all the women in the USA wearing burkas and getting permission from their husbands to leave the house.

Mega - I think most of these guys are full of it. They are probably brow beaten, "yes dear" sort of people. The only way they can act macho is typing away on their laptop when their wives go to bed.

 

[capt. megadeth]

We can throw the bible and church doctrine out the window, and it still stands on scientific grounds that men are better suited to drive a race car, or fly a plane.

Anyway, hate to get you so upset, but it's just I have a problem in that I always have to call a spade "a spade". I'm so bad at PC..

I didn't even get to this part and I saw it coming. People like you are so predictable.

Calling a spade a spade has nothing to do with saying "a woman should give up her career and stay at home with the kids". What would you have done if she refused to do that and thought you should give up your career and stay home with the kids? What would you have done?

I like people that say it like it is and maybe women are better at raising kids, but to say we MUST give up our careers is NOT saying it like it is...it's your opinion.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Any woman (or man) who is stupid or weak enough to allow their spouse to demand them to give up their career deserves to be miserable.

If everyone thought like you do, we'd have all the women in the USA wearing burkas and getting permission from their husbands to leave the house.

Mega - I think most of these guys are full of it. They are probably brow beaten, "yes dear" sort of people. The only way they can act macho is typing away on their laptop when their wives go to bed.

Amen sista! :laugh:

No kidding!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Mega- I thought you were drained of this thread and told me to let it go?

I disagree with FMS-Speed that men are better pilots. I think women make great pilots and sometimes better... even better than me.

The fact is, women make better care givers for infants. Something that you and FlyUAL haven't been able to counter. FLYUAL did a great job staying at home for the formitive years... What is best for an infant is the best care possible. That is from Mom and of course support from Dad. Will a day care provider provide better care for your infant than you?

In addition, you two are also unable to counter the two news articles: the shifted sociopolitical environement from housewife to professional yields women are less happy.

As stated earlier, I don't understand how the working CEO stated she is a better mom cause she works. After talking to child development expert it was stated that raising children is much more difficult than working. IOW it is easier to fly a jet than be a full time parent.

We are a product of conditioning and our environment. Just as a welfare recipient will continue to take a free handout, women will continue to validate thier worth via societies rules. Which is being a stay at home mom is worthless and invisible as opposed to a working professional. What is a bright, intelligent (and in the case of you and FlyUAL, good looking ) women of free will supposed to do?

 

[HA25]

Rez, it's not my opinion, it's science.. there is a statistically higher rate of men with the spacial skills needed to fly, and there is also a statistically higher rate of men with the physical strength to work controls that may be in a reversionary mode. i.e. try flying a MD-11 or DC-10 on one hydraulic system.. it's a two man job on a good day.

anyway, I'm not one for PC so if that offends anyone sorry.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, it's not my opinion, it's science.. there is a statistically higher rate of men with the spacial skills needed to fly, and there is also a statistically higher rate of men with the physical strength to work controls that may be in a reversionary mode. i.e. try flying a MD-11 or DC-10 on one hydraulic system.. it's a two man job on a good day.

anyway, I'm not one for PC so if that offends anyone sorry.

So you are saying that an all female crew on UAL's Souix City accident (unmanned as they like to say...) would have not been as successful?

 

[capt. megadeth]

1. Mega- I thought you were drained of this thread and told me to let it go?

2. I disagree with FMS-Speed that men are better pilots. I think women make great pilots and sometimes better... even better than me.

3. The fact is, women make better care givers for infants. Will a day care provider provide better care for your infant than you?

4. In addition, you two are also unable to counter the two news articles: the shifted sociopolitical environement from housewife to professional yields women are less happy.

1. I was but a 4 day drive from California to Illinois with no Flightinfo got me to recoup. Not only that, but I really was done until Mr. "Catholic" came on here with his nonsense. You are actually more reasonable than this ding dong.....I can't believe I just said that.

2. Thanks man!

3. That may be so. No, of course daycare won't care for your child better than a parent (hopefully). I never said that. I also agree with you that it's better to have a parent at home with the kids but you take it to the extreme saying someone should never want a break. You never addressed the opposite schedule thing which does make A parent available most times. Life (and children) is about sacrifice....some people think that sacrificing their career to be at home with their kids 24/7 is the better choice....I think sacrificing my career is unwise and so does my fiancee, therefore we will sacrifice our time together by bidding opposite schedules....where is the difference? We hardly see eachother as it is so what is the difference? This was discussed at length many times between us and we both know that opposite schedules was the sacrifice WE would make for our kids. Sorry, but anyone willing to give up a multi million dollar career to play mommy rather than balance it out with dad helping out a bit is whacky and unwise.....but ONCE AGAIN....this is a broken record between us....we will never agree on this so let's let this go.

4. Uh, you can count me out of this one. I really don't have any need, desire or time to counter any articles. If other women were happier playing Suzie Homemaker than having financial and life independence, then they should go back to letting a man control them......that's their business. I wasn't raised that way and that would not make me happy...it would make me miserable. I only have one life to live and I want it to be a happy one.

 

[capt. megadeth]

So you are saying that an all female crew on UAL's Souix City accident (unmanned as they like to say...) would have not been as successful?

I'm sure that's what he would say. :laugh:

He's never flown with me though....LOL!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1. I was but a 4 day drive from California to Illinois with no Flightinfo got me to recoup. Not only that, but I really was done until Mr. "Catholic" came on here with his nonsense. You are actually more reasonable than this ding dong.....I can't believe I just said that.

So it like that with you..... got it...

2. Thanks man!

In the end its all good..

3. That may be so. No, of course daycare won't care for your child better than a parent (hopefully). I never said that. I also agree with you that it's better to have a parent at home with the kids but you take it to the extreme saying someone should never want a break. You never addressed the opposite schedule thing which does make A parent available most times. Life (and children) is about sacrifice....some people think that sacrificing their career to be at home with their kids 24/7 is the better choice....I think sacrificing my career is unwise and so does my fiancee, therefore we will sacrifice our time together by bidding opposite schedules....where is the difference? We hardly see eachother as it is so what is the difference? This was discussed at length many times between us and we both know that opposite schedules was the sacrifice WE would make for our kids. Sorry, but anyone willing to give up a multi million dollar career to play mommy rather than balance it out with dad helping out a bit is whacky and unwise.....but ONCE AGAIN....this is a broken record between us....we will never agree on this so let's let this go.

Consider 'modeling' or 'behavior by example'. What type of relationship are you showing the little one? Tag team parenting? When one comes home the other leaves? That long term committed relationships are really 24-48 hours sessions with 4-7 day blocks of FL350 at .8?

Relationships are like sex. If a couple is comfortable with ball gags, midgets and jello, then go for it! But when kids get involved... they are like copy machines! And applying complex adult socio paradigms to child development is..... debatable?

Finally, kids are not dumb... they will ask hard questions. A friendly heads up...be prepared.

4. Uh, you can count me out of this one. I really don't have any need, desire or time to counter any articles. If other women were happier playing Suzie Homemaker than having financial and life independence, then they should go back to letting a man control them......that's their business. I wasn't raised that way and that would not make me happy...it would make me miserable. I only have one life to live and I want it to be a happy one.

You are trading one for the other. What is this "a man control them" It seems you can think only one way on this... You aren't seeking stability, rather just seeking out the lesser of two evils...

 

[capt. megadeth]

1. Finally, kids are not dumb... they will ask hard questions. A friendly heads up...be prepared.

2. You are trading one for the other. What is this "a man control them" It seems you can think only one way on this... You aren't seeking stability, rather just seeking out the lesser of two evils...

1. No doubt. They are very intuitive.
I will answer...."Johnny, you like that bike you have or not?" LOL! Just kidding. They will be fine but thanks for the heads up.

2. Sure dude, whatever you want to think. Yup, that's it. Looks like we both only think one way on this subject, which is why I just said let's let it lie.

 

[capt. megadeth]

By the way, until I see you hassle the guys on the other thread about their wives working, I am just not taking you seriously anymore. Once I realized what is going on, you have lost some credibility with me bro.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

By the way, until I see you hassle the guys on the other thread about their wives working, I am just not taking you seriously anymore. Once I realized what is going on, you have lost some credibility with me bro.

Whoa.... easy girl.. you have picked and choosen what you respond too.. but if you want me to climb on and ride them like a show pony, like I have with you and flyual...then say the word!:beer:

 

[capt. megadeth]

Whoa.... easy girl.. you have picked and choosen what you respond too.. but if you want me to climb on and ride them like a show pony, like I have with you and flyual...then say the word!:beer:

WORD!

 

[HA25]

So you are saying that an all female crew on UAL's Souix City accident (unmanned as they like to say...) would have not been as successful?

Let's just say the odds would have been much worse.

More important is the Capt. Bryce McCormick incident with the DC10 that lost 2 of the 3 systems and the "manhandling" that it took to get it down with no lives lost.

In the end, you can't cheat the laws of physics with PC.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In this excerpt..... the author says it was McCormicks self initiated sim prep. Then again Mega is a man trapped in a womans body so I think she can handle it.....

The American Airlines pilot had, entirely on his own initiative, spent hours preparing himself for a problem that the aircraft designers had dismissed as hopelessly improbable.

On June 12, 1972, Mrs. Al Kaminsky was a passenger on American Airlines Flight 96 when the rear cargo door blew out with an almighty bang. The floor at the rear of the DC-10 collapsed, and panels in the cabin flew open. One of them gashed Kaminsky’s face. When the plane turned back and landed in Detroit, she hesitated about jumping from the top of the escape slide; a flight attendant had to push her out. Kaminsky slipped at the bottom and cut her foot to the bone. Finally, FBI agents detained her to interrogate her, her husband, and the other passengers about being suspected terrorists. “They tried to kill me!” Kaminsky was later heard saying.
That was true, if “they” were an armload of thoughtlessly designed parts on the DC-10’s cargo door. More important is that some people—mainly Capt. Bryce McCormick—saved Kaminsky’s life.
In every other instance in which airliners in flight faced the kind of mechanical crisis that Flight 96 did—pilots losing most of the flight controls—those airplanes crashed, killing all or many on board. McCormick, who mentally had girded himself two months earlier for just such an extreme emergency, brought everybody back home. The story of how McCormick happened to be in the wrong place at the right time is one of the most remarkable stories from the machine frontier.
In his first 28 years with American Airlines, McCormick mastered six types of airliners. Now with the DC-10 jumbo jet coming from McDonnell Douglas, McCormick looked it over tip to top. He even climbed inside the cargo compartment, where one thing bothered him: the location of the control linkages that governed the rear engine, rudder, and elevator on the tail. The DC-10 had three independent sets of control cables and hydraulic lines running to the tail. That was good, but those independent lines ran right next to each other. A problem that knocked out one could cut the others. McCormick pondered the fact that the DC-10, unlike the other jets he had flown, offered no manual backup system if the hydraulics failed.
To prepare McCormick for the changeover to the DC-10, American Airlines summoned him to its Fort Worth, Texas, training center in March 1972. One afternoon, McCormick told his instructor that he was worried about losing the hydraulic system. He asked for extra time on the simulator to determine if he could control and then land the giant airplane without a hydraulic system, using nothing but the engine throttles. McCormick was pleasantly surprised to find that he could. With a few more hours of simulator practice, McCormick was able to take off, fly around, and land using only the three throttle levers. He steered left by pulling back on the left-hand engine and advancing the right-hand engine; he steered right by doing the opposite. He made the DC-10 climb and descend by adjusting power on the tail-mounted engine, whose location on the fin gave him considerable leverage.
Although McCormick didn’t know it, an obscure mishap during the initial testing of the DC-10 foreshadowed exactly the kind of problem that his intuition and experience told him might occur.
Because the interiors of airliners are pressurized while flying in the thin air of high altitude, and because the higher air pressure inside pushes with great force toward the lower pressure outside, any outward-swinging door—such as the DC-10’s cargo door—will pop open unless it is gripped shut with a latch. So the DC-10 cargo door mechanism required the baggage handler to pull down the top-hinging door and shut it; swing down a lever on the outside of the door; press and hold a button that operated an electric motor at the top of the door until he heard a click; and wait seven more seconds until he heard the motor stop running. On the inward side of the door, that motor caused latches to reach out and grasp a metal fitting. If the motor didn’t lower the latches all the way, the door would appear to be closed until the airplane reached enough altitude to let the pressure differential blow the door out.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

.....

On May 29, 1970, during a cabin-pressure test at a hangar in Long Beach, Calif., an improperly closed cargo door burst open, causing the floor of the passenger compartment holding pressurized air to crash down into the cargo compartment holding now-unpressurized air. But the only thing that proved to McDonnell Douglas was that some joker on an airport tarmac might not press the electric button long enough to finish the latching process. The solution was to put a hole in the door for a vent flap that would be closed by the same linkage that shut the cargo door. If the vent didn’t shut, the pilots would know from the air leakage that there was a problem before they got high enough for the cargo door to blow out. It was foolproof, except for one thing: A little excessive force by a baggage handler, struggling to shut the door, could make the vent flap closed even though the cargo door wasn’t fully locked. The pilots would take off without knowing there was a problem.
On June 12, 1972, with fewer than 100 hours on the DC-10, McCormick got a chance to try out his new skill on a real airplane with real passengers. He was the captain of American Airlines Flight 96, originating in Los Angeles and terminating in New York, with stops along the way. During a brief layover in Detroit, a cargo handler had trouble closing the rear cargo door. By leaning his knee on the closing lever, the handler got the cargo door to shut, but the little vent flap looked askew. He called a mechanic, and they opened and shut the door again, deciding it was good enough. A warning light in the cockpit blinked out, telling the crew the door was locked. It wasn’t.
Climbing on autopilot at an altitude of 12,000 feet with 67 people aboard, Flight 96 was near Windsor, Ontario, when things went crazy on the flight deck. The crew heard a bang from the rear of the plane, and a jolt slammed co-pilot Paige Whitney and McCormick back in their seats. The left rudder pedal jammed to the floor, and the engine throttles flew back to idle. McCormick’s right leg came up, and his knee hit him in the chest as a blast of dust, grit, and rivets blew into his face, knocking off his headset. The emergency trim handle broke off in his hands.
McCormick tried moving the control column back to level out the airplane, but the elevator controls were so damaged that he could budge the column only with great difficulty. The airplane went into a right-hand turn and began nosing into a dive that, if not stopped, would be its last. Cockpit warning lamps flared up from one side of the panel to the other, telling of an engine fire and dangerously low air speed, among many other problems. The only things McCormick and Whitney could think of as the cause were a midair collision or a bomb.
In fact, the air pressure had generated so much leverage that it sheared off metal pins and blew the cargo door out. The door broke in two, folding the top part up like the lid of a tin can and sending the bottom to crash against the tail and fall to the ground. Just as happened in the 1970 hangar test, the cabin floor near the door collapsed. The collapse jammed the control cables to the tail.
As the round cocktail bar at the rear of the airplane collapsed into the crater that appeared in the floor, flight attendant Bea Copeland fell into the pit. She looked through the hole in the fuselage at her feet to see the landscape below.
McCormick pushed the wing-engine throttles to full power, bringing the airplane out of its dive. To counteract the right-hand bank from the jammed rudder, he turned the wheel on his control column 45 degrees to the left and kept it there. Then he paused to take stock of the situation. McCormick’s simulator training had taught him to avoid sudden moves, because the tiny edge of control he still had couldn’t extract the plane out of a steep dive or turn.
He and Whitney alerted air traffic control and, afraid of a possible fire, shut down the tail engine. McCormick nudged the wing engine throttles to see if he could control the airplane in the same way he had in the simulator. It worked. The DC-10 had a fatally flawed cargo-door design, but, as McCormick knew, the layout of its engines made it unusually well-suited to steering by engine power.
In one respect, McCormick was a little better off than he had prepared for in the simulator sessions: He had some use of the elevator control, although only one side was working, and every time he used the elevator it tried to roll the airplane over. In another respect, McCormick was worse off than in his simulator training, because he had no control over the tail engine.
Turning the wheel on the control column to the left leveled the airplane’s wings but left McCormick without enough use of the ailerons to control the airplane’s path. He could probably keep the airplane under control in midair, but could he steer it back to a runway?
At this point, the procedures manual called for an emergency descent to lower altitudes, but McCormick overruled that. The passengers could survive the thin air of 12,000 feet for a few moments, but his control over the airplane wouldn’t survive any sudden moves.
Flight attendant Copeland pulled herself to safety from the collapsed floor, and McCormick, citing a “mechanical problem,” coolly informed passengers that American Airlines would provide a new plane at Detroit so their trip could continue. The passengers’ mood lifted immediately. Suddenly, they could see beyond this apparently fatal problem to life on the ground.
Working very slowly, McCormick turned the jet back to Detroit’s Wayne County Airport. In a feat of airliner piloting that has never been equaled, McCormick kept the crippled DC-10 under control to the runway threshold.
It came in hot, at 186 m.p.h., because the only way McCormick could keep the airliner from tipping forward and smashing into the ground was to maintain high power on the engines. Immediately after the plane touched down, the jammed rudder sent the airliner off the runway to the right, the nose gear threatening to break off every time the airplane slammed across a taxiway. Now, irony of ironies, the airplane was speeding toward a crash with the airport fire station. Both wing engines were at full reverse, but they weren’t going to be able to stop the aircraft in time.
Co-pilot Whitney seized the moment and steered the DC-10 to safety by cutting back on one thrust reverser. This overpowered the stuck rudder. The wheels finally came to rest.
Not one person was killed, and this aircraft would fly again, most recently for FedEx Corp. [www.fedex.com].
McCormick asked McDonnell Douglas to “fix the damn door.”

 

[capt. megadeth]

Then again Mega is a man trapped in a womans body so I think she can handle it.....

LOL!

 

[HA25]

I saw a speech by him about this incident at a get together of retired American Pilots a while back... it was all he and the other two could do to control the airplane with every bit of strength they had.

from your excerpt..
[/b]

"The emergency trim handle broke off in his hands.
McCormick tried moving the control column back to level out the airplane, but the elevator controls were so damaged that he could budge the column only with great difficulty." [/b]

Again, were it a cockpit of 3 100-130lb gals, I doubt it would have been the same outcome.. but then that's not PC, so go on shoot me!

 

[HA25]

well, no edit for some reason, but you understand where the bold should go..

 

[HA25]

Ok, off topic a bit, but I'm dying to know.. why can't I edit in this thread but I can in the others?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I saw a speech by him about this incident at a get together of retired American Pilots a while back... it was all he and the other two could do to control the airplane with every bit of strength they had.

from your excerpt..


"The emergency trim handle broke off in his hands.
McCormick tried moving the control column back to level out the airplane, but the elevator controls were so damaged that he could budge the column only with great difficulty."

Again, were it a cockpit of 3 100-130lb gals, I doubt it would have been the same outcome.. but then that's not PC, so go on shoot me!

Well maybe if McCormick used his mind instead of his muscle the elec. trim lever wouldn't have broken off in his hand... Sometimes the grace of a women in the cockpit is better than the braun of a man.

I think any feminist would rather have a 220lbs firefighter w/ 70lbs of turnout gear pull her and her babies (if they weren't at the "day care providers") instead of a 120lb gender boundry breaker girl (w/ 70 lbs of gear) out of the house.


Perhaps in the old school world of over built jet aircraft, like DC-8's, -9, and -10's of cable hyd systems.... Then again... are women having DC-8 problems at UPS?

but as we evolve into Airbus'? Can a man fly an Airbus better than a woman? I mean what can a man do to a side stick that a woman can't? Mega? can you do something to a stick-like object better than a man?

Ok, off topic a bit, but I'm dying to know.. why can't I edit in this thread but I can in the others?

Mega and Flyual have mind fcuked this thread so much it has denied edit function..

 

[capt. megadeth]

You two hash this one out amongst yourselves.

Mr. Rambo Catholic has worn me out.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I just hope, for Mr. Rambo's sake, that he calls in sick whenever he has to fly with a woman. I mean, poor guy, he's probably single pilot the entire time....that would tire me out.