Two people in Aviation with Kids. Does it work?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All I'm saying is that just because mommy stays at home doesn't guarantee a thing except that mommy will be completely dependent on her spouse and will be running around looking for alimony and child support should divorce time ever come. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in that situation. Call it "issues" or whatever, that's fine, but I won't be in that type of situation, EVER.

Maybe you girls are watching lifetime channel too much...

Exactly, and when the EX wife does go looking for support, all the men call her a gold digger and tell her to go find a job. You just can't win. Either she works or she doesn't. If she doesn't, then you better expect to support her well because if you don't, the courts will insist upon it.

There are women who want to stay at home... There are some who aspire to it.... that doesn't make men bad people. Some women and men know how to stay married. Some don't.

The sociopolitical mantra of the feminist have made it clear that women who don't prove thier value in the workplace are indentured servants of patriarchs... What they've done, combined with the babyboomers, is jack the divorce rate up and put our kids on meds. In short its all about me. Me me me. It breaks my heart in the summer seeing kids shuttle across the country as UMs from one parent to the other. Summertime means joint custody and yes the courts favor women. Why is that?

Now maybe you two have bought into that BS... maybe you haven't...

I find it quite admirable if a woman or spouse can operate a household, volunteer to the community and raise social assets of children. I think it is harder to do than being a female pilot. (whatever that means...)

Yet you haven't denied that your working/flying is economically viable and required to provided food, shelter and clothing. In fact you've stated quite clearly that it is about you: breaking free of the household shackles and four walls of domestic prison.

Give me a break. And your kids.

 

[FlyUnited]

I find it quite admirable if a woman or spouse can operate a household, volunteer to the community and raise social assets of children.

I did ALL of those things....and have been married over twenty years. So, did you do it yet or do you just preach?

One thing I did teach my kids was not to be in aviation. That seems like a very socially aware thing for a parent to do, don't you agree?

 

[satpak77]

Uh, no. I don't need to explain myself or vindicate myself to anyone. What I do is my business.

All I'm saying is that just because mommy stays at home doesn't guarantee a thing except that mommy will be completely dependent on her spouse and will be running around looking for alimony and child support should divorce time ever come. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in that situation. Call it "issues" or whatever, that's fine, but I won't be in that type of situation, EVER.

In summary, you suffer from abandonment issues and a fear of divorce. To such an extent, you qualify it with "EVER." You also stated "you don't have to explain yourself to anyone" (thumbing your nose at the men in the audience, as if you don't answer to anyone) but then go on with an explanation, because you must let the same men in the audience "hear you out."

Your use of "EVER" (in caps) is indicative of a flee/flight response to a previous painful experience.

Ask the guy who got stomach flu in Germany, if he wants to go back and visit, amd he says "nah, thanks, how about somewhere else"

Ask the guy who was a former Nazi POW, and he says "I will never go to Germany, EVER"

So your responses are indicative of a severe pain incurred by you, at some point in your life.

I recommend you try to resolve your pains and fears, some of which you have no control over, zero, and try to seek inner peace with your demons.

The enemy is not "men." It was your father. He is somewhere more peaceful now.

You should be too.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I did ALL of those things....and have been married over twenty years. So, did you do it yet or do you just preach?

Good for you! I'd like to think I am doing it... but like age 60....(or is it 65) I'll have to wait till I am there...

One thing I did teach my kids was not to be in aviation. That seems like a very socially aware thing for a parent to do, don't you agree?

I don't know...we choose it.

 

[hindsight2020]

I can't hold on any longer.. LOL

One thing I've observed is that women pilots have a difficult time developing relationships with men who are not pilots. I kid you not, every single woman pilot I know is in a relationship, or married to, another pilot; these encompass women I know at all levels of aviation I've been exposed to: CFIs, regionals, and military.

I agree with satpak, the majority of these women define their self-worth solely on the job they perform, which is why they end up with other pilots. It's a matter of social currency really. For a guy who is not interested in flying in general, a woman pilot has really no interesting qualities, as she works in a historically male gender role, asset which only a pilot male would normally appreciate, and therefore it is of little social currency to him [the non-pilot male]. Additionally, said guy can find tons of women with more socially valuable attitudes to him, i.e. the proverbial nurse/teacher who has the inclination and job schedule to make a stable and involved mother, everything else being equal. During college, a lot of the young GOOD looking women (let's face it, women pilots are not know to be of the good looking persuasion by percentage among their work peers, as say nurses by comparison) realize there is a level of social currency to being Mrs. Mommy, and as the posters have suggested, many have taken to a more domestic role after college, perhaps part-time work in their work field of interest..these are attitudes that women pilots resent gratuitously, as shown in this thread as well. All that is not to suggest that a woman pilot is inherently uncapable of making a better mother than any Suzie nurse, but it is a pretty resounding trend that women pilots RESENT their social shortcoming (some quietly, some loudly), particularly when the reason for such shortcoming is something that is so tied to what defines them so profoundly.

Consequently, two-pilot unions is not an easy idea to pitch for raising a family. It is really closer to a rock star type of family dynamic than your normal 9-5. Families need stability, two individuals who constantly have to bust their chops (although they'd likely minimize the a$$pain it is when talking to their non-pilot peers) to make the schedules work to allow them to tend to their children, is certainly an ill-suited proposition. That's reason #2 most women pilots have a love-hate relationship with their identity. They want the cake and eat it too. They COULD make it work if hubby had the flexibility to allow for her being gone. But since we already established that women pilots almost have to end up with male pilots, the resultant work dynamic makes it difficult to make that proposition work.

We went out for dinner with a co-worker whose wife happens to also be a pilot (my g/f is employed in landscape architecture by contrast). You could sense the tension when my g/f asked his wife about children and "how does the schedule work"? (neither them nor us have children at the moment). Said wife is struggling to break into the regional game, and hubby is military, whose career and paycheck have taken precedence. You can tell she's not happy across the table, and I submit it is not a coincidence these two ended up together (see my first paragragh). Likewise, you could see the shoulder-shrugging she had for my g/f when my girl told them if I were to ever be in a position to make six figures and carry the main economic burden of rasing my future family, she wouldn't blink twice before strongly considering resorting to part-time work in her field and being with the kids. I've never told my g/f to give any part of her vocational pursuits to pop kids or whatever, but yet that shows exactly the paradigm these women pilots face. This woman sees no value in my g/f's attitude, and that is because it is resoundingly obvious that my g/f sees her job as a pursuit she enjoys, but something that in the end doesn't define her, whereas subject #2 is somebody who has a death-grip on the "I'm a WO-man PILOT" and yet wrestles at night with why she couldn't hitch an accountant or lawyer instead with another pilot, whose more of a burden to her secret white picket fence desires than somebody she'd find midly intersting to talk to every night at the dinnner table (about the same topic mind you).

Do two pilot families work? I'd say marginally sure. But as a pilot myself, wouldn't be something I was ever interested in pursuing for precisely the above reasons. Don't get me wrong, my PPL CFI was a woman, great lady, but she was in her 40s and single, and went about her trips and schedule as she pleased, and it worked for her, but that's not the paradigm a woman can use for creating a family FWIW.

 

[satpak77]

highsight

excellent post. You appear to read Daniel Goleman and/or Stephen Covey

 

[capt. megadeth]

I recommend you try to resolve your pains and fears, some of which you have no control over, zero, and try to seek inner peace with your demons.

The enemy is not "men." It was your father. He is somewhere more peaceful now.

You should be too.

How do you do that when you feel fine?

 

[satpak77]

How do you do that when you feel fine?

Not unlike Stockholms syndrome, in which the hostage/POW begins to align himself with the hostage taker, someone in your situation does not know any other condition, and therefore for you, "I am fine" is the theme of the day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome


Similar to a guy who has been homeless his whole life. Give him public housing, a roof, and four walls, and a lock on the front door, and life is great.

However he does not know the life of the suburbs, with stainless steel appliances, green yards, etc (you get the idea). So he has no performance measure above and beyond "life is fine" from his vantage point of the public housing. To him, that is a huge improvement over his previous life.

So you indeed feel "fine." However I recommend you seek out that life above and beyond, and try to make peace with your past experiences. I did not live your life, only you did, so I am not about to how to go about it and nickel and dime your gameplan to death.

I will however recommend that you begin the process. There are various books I can recommend that could give you a jump-start on things, which are "sanctioned" by the therapist/psychology crowd.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I find it funny that you guys think it's a WOMAN pilot thing when in fact, it's not. I was a nurse for 8 years and even if that was my career, I would keep working if I had kids. Unfortunately in this career, you cannot just quit, come back 10 years later and pick up where you left off. You guys act like it's so easy. "Oh, just quit". If it was that easy and I could take off for 5-10 years, accrue longevity, keep my seniority and go back later, I would. Think about yourselves....would it be that easy for you to just quit forever? You don't have to worry about it because you can just have your wife do that. If it was you that needed to quit, would it be that easy for you?

 

[capt. megadeth]

So you indeed feel "fine." However I recommend you seek out that life above and beyond, and try to make peace with your past experiences. I did not live your life, only you did, so I am not about to how to go about it and nickel and dime your gameplan to death.
.

Thanks for the advice, but I think you are thinking a little deep for me. Sure it hurts that I grew up without a father but I am very, very happy in my life. There is nothing I want for and I really don't think I need to read into it and get myself thinking I need help for something I really don't think about but thanks for the advice.