Two people in Aviation with Kids. Does it work?

[FlyUnited]

Biz, you missed the point completely. These guys don't want you to work EVER. So those 'rare' trips you just mentioned, forget it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Biz, you missed the point completely. These guys don't want you to work EVER. So those 'rare' trips you just mentioned, forget it.

Not true! You seem intent on creating men into evil villians that want to chain you to the oven and bed. Men aren't the problem here... its the indentity crisis and the multiple jobs that women have taken on...wife, mother, professional...

The original title of the thread.... "with Kids Does it work?" For some reason the feminist have rejected our children in thier pursuit for power and "emancipation"...

The above article states that women still haven't found equalibrium. In fact they are more unhappy now, then when they "were the patriarch's indentured servants"

Many women took the feminist "you can have it all" bait and its just made them more miserable. The deterministic women whose identity is tied to the workplace. Specifically for us.. the jet. The new paradigm is "you can have it all-just not at the same time"

Do you have a problem with a husband that wants and finds a women who wants to stay at home, while he works? If both are happy is that cool? Do you view her as less? Do you look down on her?

 

[capt. megadeth]

1. Men aren't the problem here... its the indentity crisis and the multiple jobs that women have taken on...wife, mother, professional...

2. The original title of the thread.... "with Kids Does it work?" For some reason the feminist have rejected our children in thier pursuit for power and "emancipation"...

3. The above article states that women still haven't found equalibrium. In fact they are more unhappy now, then when they "were the patriarch's indentured servants"

4. Many women took the feminist "you can have it all" bait and its just made them more miserable. The deterministic women whose identity is tied to the workplace. Specifically for us.. the jet. The new paradigm is "you can have it all-just not at the same time"

5. Do you have a problem with a husband that wants and finds a women who wants to stay at home, while he works?

6. If both are happy is that cool?

7. Do you view her as less?

8. Do you look down on her?

1. Oh, of course not....men are NEVER the problem

2. Aaaah yes....the original title of the thread that you helped hijack. The original poster was asking "does it work"? You don't have a spouse in the airline industry so you really cannot answer the question but you had to get on here and flap your yap about your idealisms that she wasn't even asking about.

3. Are you really that naive that you just blindly believe what a stupid survey (that can be swayed) says? I'm sure women were much happier being under the complete control of their husbands....NOT! Interestingly, my mom and many other women from the last generation have complained to me how they could have gotten an education and not been stuck just getting married but that was not available at the time for women.

4. LOL! Yup, I'm really miserable having more opportunities than my mother did. You are naive.

5. Yes, he is a chavanist basically. Men should encourage their partners to have back up plans and their own lives vs. being completely financially dependent on them.

6. Sure if both are happy, I suppose that's cool

7. It depends. If she has a back up plan and chose to stay home, I don't view her as less. If she has no back up (just in case hubby isn't bringing home the bacon anymore for whatever reason), then she's a moron and I don't feel sorry for her when the $hit hits the fan.

8. Depends....is she truly looking to give her children what she feels is best or is she a gold digger looking to be taken care of?


Now, I have a question for you.

Let's say in 10 years you and your wife divorce. Are you going to have a problem giving her half of everything you have (including your pension)? Let's say she takes off with some 25 year old stallion....are you going to be ok just giving her alimony and half of everything or are you going to be saying what a
b!tch she is for taking you for everything you have???? Hmmmmmm.....don't lie now.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Whoops...I guess all those questions were for FlyUnited. Sorry, I am so used to him attacking me that I just started to type away.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1. Oh, of course not....men are NEVER the problem

Your sarcasm indicates that men are the problem. Until you take control of your choices you will continue to blame others... let's see what kind of trend we can find...

2. Aaaah yes....the original title of the thread that you helped hijack. The original poster was asking "does it work"?

Correct... I am advocating children before sociopolitical and economic wants. And by that I don't mean women must stay at home. Only a spouse should stay at home.

And you have advocated wants before needs of the kids. You don't like my opinions on the matter so you declare I am uninvited and butting in...

You don't have a spouse in the airline industry

False... you don't know what you speak of....

so you really cannot answer the question but you had to get on here and flap your yap about your idealisms that she wasn't even asking about.

Wrong again. I know exactly what I am talking about. You are the one trying to find solutions within the "you can have it all" mantra

3. Are you really that naive that you just blindly believe what a stupid survey (that can be swayed) says? I'm sure women were much happier being under the complete control of their husbands....NOT!

Complete control? Again, you refuse to accept repsonsibility. Egor the trend? Women had plenty of choice. They chose to redefine womens role in American society. And they are still in a quagmire. Still men's fault? (trend?) Women have had carte blanc to do what they want to do and its still overwhelming..

It is easy to blame men... blame someone else..

Interestingly, my mom and many other women from the last generation have complained to me how they could have gotten an education and not been stuck just getting married but that was not available at the time for women.

Why? Stuck getting married? Was she forced to marry? Was she forced to marry a specific person? Could she have choosen not to marry and go to college? Please elaborate on this??

4. LOL! Yup, I'm really miserable having more opportunities than my mother did. You are naive.

More choice and opportunity means more responsibility... you've got allot of responsibilty on the way...

5. Yes, he is a chavanist basically. Men should encourage their partners to have back up plans and their own lives vs. being completely financially dependent on them.

Again, you refuse to accept responsibility. If a husband wants a wife homemaker, and finds one and she wants to stay at home, he is a chauvanist. Your victim status that you create is unreal.

Financially independent means ready to eject. it doesn't promote commitment... Some people make choices and accept thier own responsibility for themselves. (trend?).

6. Sure if both are happy, I suppose that's cool

But he is still a chauvanist?

7. It depends. If she has a back up plan and chose to stay home, I don't view her as less. If she has no back up (just in case hubby isn't bringing home the bacon anymore for whatever reason), then she's a moron and I don't feel sorry for her when the $hit hits the fan.

Not everyone lives in your world. Some women know how to make choices and take responsibility for themselves. They are smart enough to choose on their own accord, a compatable mate.

8. Depends....is she truly looking to give her children what she feels is best or is she a gold digger looking to be taken care of?

Again your expeirence has scripted you... that love, marriage and divorce occur in specific paradigms. Not so... many women don't have the baggage that you do, thus they are free to make thier own choices and take repsonsibility for them... (trend?)

Now, I have a question for you.

Of course you do...

Let's say in 10 years you and your wife divorce. Are you going to have a problem giving her half of everything you have (including your pension)?

I don't have a pension...but yes. Iv'e got a meager 401k. She's got a IRA that she started too, all in her name.

Let's say she takes off with some 25 year old stallion....

A real stud with male implants... I mean this guy is 'show' material...

are you going to be ok just giving her alimony and half of everything or are you going to be saying what a
b!tch she is for taking you for everything you have????

I've always felt that if I called my wife a b!tch that was a reflection of my choice in a spouse. In addition, I've got rights to call my wife a b!tch or moron before anyone else and that includes you.

Again, the goal isn't to dwell on escape plans. I know that is a reality in your world, but I work to make the mariage work. I do the best I can to serve my wife. To make sure her needs are met. Communication and not taking her for granted are pieces to the puzzle. Working for success is better than dwelling on escape plans.

If she leaves with the stallion then I will take care of my moral, legal and financial reposnibilites...

Hmmmmmm.....don't lie now.

I won't if you won't...

So you are going to have a baby. The gift of life is not to be questioned..

Let's say you come home form a trip and the Dear Jane Letter reads...

Dear Mega

"Can't take it anymore, the baby is next door at the neighbors, I am outta here (which includes moving out of state). Signed "Not your Manbot anymore"

Now.. what are you going to do Mega? You are a single, unwed, mother who flies multi-day trips? Your legal rights to obligate him are less due to the unmarried status. Hopefully you can do out and backs in SDF? But even so.. the demands of a single parent even with kids in school are high... what is the plan before the child goes to public/private school?

Now you are big into back up plans... (if I were in your shoes I'd seek legal council).....so what is it?

 

[capt. megadeth]

Your sarcasm indicates that men are the problem. Until you take control of your choices you will continue to blame others... let's see what kind of trend we can find...

You say reasoning with me is like reasoning with a barking dog.

Reasoning with you is like reasoning with a rock.

You make assumptions based on what I say so now you say I blame others yet you BLAME EVERYTHING ON THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[capt. megadeth]

More choice and opportunity means more responsibility... you've got allot of responsibilty on the way...

Well, unlike some people, ahem, I can multitask and handle a lot of responsibility. It sounds like you can't so you say others can't either.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Your victim status that you create is unreal.

Financially independent means ready to eject. it doesn't promote commitment... Some people make choices and accept thier own responsibility for themselves. (trend?).

Victim status???

So in your little one task at a time world you cannot be committed to someone and independent at the same time? Once again, sorry you can't walk and chew gum but I can.

 

[capt. megadeth]

But he is still a chauvanist?

Well, he's setting himself up to be a bitter old man when divorce time comes, in which case, I don't feel sorry for him. He put himself in that situation.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Not everyone lives in your world. Some women know how to make choices and take responsibility for themselves. They are smart enough to choose on their own accord, a compatable mate.

Uh, I advocate taking responsibility for myself.

Trying to find someone to "take care of you" financially is not taking responsibility for yourself. It's being irresponsible.

 

[capt. megadeth]

. Working for success is better than dwelling on escape plans.

If she leaves with the stallion then I will take care of my moral, legal and financial reposnibilites...

Of course it is but being naive and not having a back up (not "escape plan" but a back up) is unwise. Why not work for success but know you have a back up plan?

And I take it you won't b!tch about it one iota eh? LOL!

 

[capt. megadeth]

Now.. what are you going to do Mega? You are a single, unwed, mother who flies multi-day trips? Your legal rights to obligate him are less due to the unmarried status. Hopefully you can do out and backs in SDF? But even so.. the demands of a single parent even with kids in school are high... what is the plan before the child goes to public/private school?

Well, I would wish that I would have been a stay at home mom in this situation so I can truly be f***ed!

Seriously, though, hopefully, he would still want to help out with HIS OWN child but if not......Well, I certainly won't be running around like a fool to court to get my f***ing alimony (even if I was married) or child support. Why? Because I don't need it! If need be, I can move to Louisville and teach in the simulator. I'm not crazy about daycare, but at that point you do what you have to do. If I don't move then can have my mom help me when I am gone. I'd love to see her work less at her job and give her the difference in money. There are many many options none of which would put me in a better position had I been married. I would also be thanking my lucky stars that I didn't put myself in a position like the one you seem to love so much. THEN what would I do?

I know in YOUR little world being a single female pilot with a kid is something that is probably impossible but I've actually met a few and they make it work. They weren't b!tching about it either.

Do you honestly think that a stay at home mom is in a better position than someone like me when daddy hits the road? If so, you are truly delusional.

 

[FlyUnited]

Rez, most of my friends are stay home moms simply because I have rarely worked throughout the years.....so NO, I don't have a problem with women who choose to stay home. Also, I adore men (especially all MY MEN.....husband and my boys)

I do have an issue with certain types of men though. You know the types, the ones who try to hold a person down so low that they lose all self esteem. Hint: the kind YOU like.

 

[FlyUnited]

Rez, I find it interesting that you state as fact one article and hold it up as gospel. I can find just as many to state the opposite.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, most of my friends are stay home moms simply because I have rarely worked throughout the years.....so NO, I don't have a problem with women who choose to stay home.

ok

Also, I adore men (especially all MY MEN.....husband and my boys)

Of course... you molded and trainied them!

I do have an issue with certain types of men though. You know the types, the ones who try to hold a person down so low that they lose all self esteem. Hint: the kind YOU like.

Ah the personal attack....

Rez, I find it interesting that you state as fact one article and hold it up as gospel.

Gospel? I think I just posted an article.... you seemed to take it negatively and so you have to dramatize it with sarcasm.

I can find just as many to state the opposite.

Let see those articles..... I am intrested in both sides of the debate... and I'd love to read it from a more creditable source other than you and your personal attacks..

 

[FlyUnited]

OK, I'll go find one, but I'm going to go swimming with my hubby right now, so you'll have to wait.

Rez, are you sure you aren't the 'stay home mom'? You are always online.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

OK, I'll go find one, but I'm going to go swimming with my hubby right now, so you'll have to wait.

Rez, are you sure you aren't the 'stay home mom'? You are always online.

You must be a raisin by now....


You figured me out.... I am a airline pilot wanna be... stuck at home cause I got a professional girl pregnant... she wears the pants....

Did you find that article?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Work or stay at home? It's still a quandary for moms

FlyUnited: While your looking for your articles, here is one that popped up in the USAToday, yesterday. What do you think?



http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2007-10-02-working-moms_N.htm


Work or stay at home? It's still a quandary for moms


By Stephanie Armour, USA TODAY
Stay-at-home moms and working mothers have hardly called a truce in the so-called Mommy Wars — the debate over which sort of parenting is better for a child: a mother at home or on the job.
The latest salvo: a book by Leslie Bennetts, The Feminine Mistake, which posits that mothers assume too much of a financial and career risk if they stay at home to raise the kids.
Recent research also reflects the ambivalence with which many mothers regard their own decisions about working or staying home, and many feel harshly judged for their choices. There is a widespread belief that today's parents are not measuring up to the standard that parents set a generation ago, according to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center. More than half of Americans (56%) say that mothers are doing a worse job today than mothers did 20 or 30 years ago, the study found.

"I often hear moms who are thinking of going back to work tell me they need flexibility, but being at home is driving them crazy," says Robin Ryan, a career coach and author of What to Do with The Rest of Your Life, in an e-mail. "Stay-at-home moms complain a lot that 'just being a mom' is like being invisible in this society."

But working moms feel qualms about their choices, too. Christina Zola, 39, of Washington, D.C., longs to stay home with her son, Nicholas, 4, but works full time doing marketing for an architecture firm.

"The guilt is there, wherever I am, and I rarely feel I'm in the right place at the right time." Zola says. "We all, as mothers, live with the consequences of our choices, and we don't take them lightly."
More prefer part-time jobs
In the span of the past decade, full-time work outside the home has lost some of its appeal to mothers, a report from the Pew Research Center found. This trend holds for mothers who have such jobs and those who don't.

Among working mothers with children 17 and under, one in five (21%) say full-time work is the ideal situation for them, down from the 32% who said that in 1997, according to a July Pew Research Center survey. Six in 10 (up from 48% in 1997) of today's working mothers say part-time work would be their ideal, and one in five (19%) say they would prefer not working at all outside the home.
Those who do work say they often must confront attitudes from co-workers who may question their decision to leave children in child care or with a nanny. That's what happened to Sabrina Parsons, CEO of Palo Alto Software in Eugene, Ore. Parsons says she was recently participating in a business meeting and during casual conversation, one of the men said, "Thank goodness my kids are not being raised by a nanny."

Presumably, this was a man who had a wife who had chosen to stay at home with his children. Meanwhile, Parsons' children were at home with their nanny. She says she just smiled, said nothing, and felt happy that she was ending a very productive meeting and was on her way home to be with her two boys, Timmy, 3, and Leo, 1. Parsons works full time.

"I thought he'd be embarrassed, but he just didn't get it," Parsons says. "I thought, 'Should I say something?' Not all of us have a choice. There are times there is pressure to feel guilty. I feel like work makes me a better mom. I want to work."
The Feminine Mistake extols the joy of mothers working at jobs they love and in being able to be financially independent if need be, and that is a position that Parsons agrees with.
She says she wants her sons to learn that mothers can also be professionals and bosses and not have to give up career aspirations just because they have children.

No right or wrong answer
Mommy Wars — that often unspoken judgment that persists over the choices that both working at stay-at-home moms make — can be avoided if mothers become more comfortable about the choices they make and why they've made them, says Lynn Jarrett, a coach and author.
"Understand that every woman is 'wired' differently. Different personalities have unique approaches and ideas on parenting," Jarrett says in an e-mail. "There's no 'right' or 'wrong' answer, but what fits best for you and your family needs. Stop 'should-ing' on yourself."
The debate and guilt over a mother's decision to work or not comes even amid major demographic changes. In 1970, women contributed a median of 27% to their families' income, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
In 2004, the most recent data available, that percentage jumped to about 35%. And the percentage of wives who earn more than their husbands do has climbed from 17.8% in families where both spouses work to 25% in 2004. About 70% of women with children under 18 are in the labor force.

"I know many moms who work full time, some who work part time, and some who stay at home," says Jeanne Hurlbert, a professor of sociology at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge.
"Probably the biggest feature we all share is that we're unsure about the decisions we've made, about whether we're doing the 'right' thing for our families, particularly for our children," she says.

Parsons says. "I thought, 'Should I say something?' Not all of us have a choice. There are times there is pressure to feel guilty. I feel like work makes me a better mom. I want to work."

Sorry, but we all have a choice. Not sure why a CEO doesn't have the ability to comprehend choice and decision making. I would think that would be a basic and fundamental characteristic of leadership and managment.

Can you gals explain to me how working makes her a better mom?

Again... she wants to work. She didn't say needs to work. What are the children needs?


[QUOTE]"Probably the biggest feature we all share is that we're unsure about the decisions we've made, about whether we're doing the 'right' thing for our families, particularly for our children," she says.[/QUOTE]

IOW...the quandry....

Why not...

1. Find Mr. Mom
2. Have kids then have career.
3. Have career then kids.
4. Have career only.
5. Have kids only.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Rez, why don't you just give it up? Let this thread die already. I know I'm guilty of keeping it going myself for a while but I'm drained.

Noone gives a crap what you think about career moms. Go live your life and we will live ours.

Your banter seriously drains me mentally.

 

[climbhappy]

why is it that when men are drained we still ...

want to have sex....when women are drained they shut down like my APU..

now, i know it is hormonal...but really , is there enough cuddling out there that can take the place of a good roll in the hay...where's DR. Phil when you need him.

throw in two kids, a full time mom and you have to make an appt.

 

[HA25]

So very true... in addition.. it is also... what is more important... social recognition in the work place and more money... or being the best parent you can.....

Gotta watch that second income... it can get sucked away real quick by child care costs, etc....

Children want to be with Mom and Dad. Period. You'll get weak excuses like... we both work, but our time with our kids is quality time.....

Strongly agree. Wife shouldn't have to work to make ends meet. If she does then you need to downsize lifestyle. Kids should be #1 priority for mom and career put on hold. My wife and her friends are all highly educated women who put their careers on hold util the kids at lease finish elementary school.

But to each their own, plus it just gives my kids more competitive edge when people put theirs in daycare

 

[FlyUnited]

How about the ones who hire incredibly high priced drivers, educators and nannies just for their kids. (and the wife still stays home, most of the time) Do you think that is unfair when your kids can't compete with them?

Stop trying to act superior....you aren't.

 

[HA25]

How about the ones who hire incredibly high priced drivers, educators and nannies just for their kids. (and the wife still stays home, most of the time) Do you think that is unfair when your kids can't compete with them?

Stop trying to act superior....you aren't.

Never said I was superior, and no I don't think the nanny babies have it better..

I am saying that kids with a mom at home in the formative years are statistically more likely to succeed than kids without. This is a fact, and my wife with a masters degree from UCLA in education knows this first hand having worked as a teacher before we got married, and SHE demanded that she stay home with our little ones. She is only now returning to work after 7 years.. and then only part time.

Don't get upset with my for your career choices, and I won't judge you on yours (even if I am tempted).

 

[FlyUnited]

LOL You are going to judge me? Why? I stayed home.

 

[HA25]

LOL You are going to judge me? Why? I stayed home.

bravo then.. carry on.

 

[FlyUnited]

Wait! I get a 'bravo' because I CHOSE to stay home? Sad. (fyi - I work trips occasionally just didn't for the first few years)

It is about choice. And NO, not the choice of 1. have baby, stay home or 2. don't have baby, go to work.

Rez - I know, I know, it took me forever to find my article, but I did. Your article is great, imho, although I find it scary that you missed the message (perhaps her husband doesn't exist) Anyway, here is my article: (Mine is as relevent as everything that has been written for the last 16 pages considering that no one is going to change their stance anyway. Cheers!
WHY MEN ARE HAPPIER

Your last name stays put.
The garage is all yours.
Wedding plans take care of themselves.
Chocolate is just another snack.
You can be President.
You can never be pregnant.(PLUS)
You can wear a white T-shirt to a water park.
You can wear NO shirt to a water park.
Car mechanics tell you the truth.
The world is your urinal.
You never have to drive to another gas station restroom because this
one is just too icky.
You don't have to stop and think of which way to turn a nut on a bolt.
Same work, more pay.
Wrinkles add character.
Wedding dress $5000 …… Tux rental $100.
People never stare at your chest when you're talking to them.
The occasional well-rendered belch is practically expected.
New shoes don't cut, blister, or mangle your feet.
One mood all the time.
Phone conversations are over in 30 seconds flat.
You know stuff about tanks.
A five-day vacation requires only one suitcase.
You can open all your own jars.
You get extra credit for the slightest act of thoughtfulness.
If someone forgets to invite you, he or she can still be your friend.
Your underwear is $8.95 for a three-pack.
Three pairs of shoes are more than enough.
You almost never have strap problems in public.
You are unable to see wrinkles in your clothes.
Everything on your face stays its original color.
The same hairstyle lasts for years, maybe decades.
You only have to shave your face and neck.
You can play with toys all your life.
Your belly usually hides your big hips.
One wallet and one pair of shoes -- one color for all seasons.
You can wear shorts no matter how your legs look.
You can "do" your nails with a pocket knife.

 

[HA25]

want to have sex....when women are drained they shut down like my APU..

lol! I just caught that.. you too must fly the MD-11

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

FLYUAL-

Not sure if that is an article from a credible (if there still is one) news source, like the NYT or USAToday. Looks like you searched your old junk emails or maybe one of the members of your "nature and society gave men a better deal so let's just be pissed off" club.. found that email for you...

It just seems like you gals jumped out of the 1950's frying pan and into the 1990's fire. Part of the problem is our society doesn't value mothers. And the feminist movement is largely to blame. Not men. Consider that if a woman had to choose between being a mother to her children or being valued in general, you can see how fustrating the issue can be...

 

[HA25]

FLYUAL-

Not sure if that is an article from a credible (if there still is one) news source, like the NYT or USAToday. Looks like you searched your old junk emails or maybe one of the members of your "nature and society gave men a better deal so let's just be pissed off" club.. found that email for you...

It just seems like you gals jumped out of the 1950's frying pan and into the 1990's fire. Part of the problem is our society doesn't value mothers. And the feminist movement is largely to blame. Not men. Consider that if a woman had to choose between being a mother to her children or being valued in general, you can see how fustrating the issue can be...

You'd be surprised how many Gen X women are "choosing" home and kids over career though. Our neighborhood is filled with them, as is our church. There are segments of society that prefer the two working professionals lifestyle out there still, but not like with the Baby Boomers and subsequent generation did.. it's a 60's style feminism that has since started to become extinct.

 

[FlyUnited]

Sorry Rez, I didn't exist in the 50's, so no frying pan for me to jump out of. I just find it hard to believe that any man believes that half of society is perfectly content with only two options in life when they are allowed to choose countless.

(I hope you are kidding, of course that was an email)