This is why the last payrates offered by NJA were "insulting."

[zugzug]

What is stopping the company

from taking all the work and planes to NJI and avoiding the Union all together?

 

[Heavy Set]

Duke, Don't bother trying to explain it to them. Their concept is pay the pilots what they want or have no company. Next time they will be asking for astronaunt wages. The Union basis it's concepts on nothing more than their wants regardless of the effect on the company. The Union will never understand the concept of business, just the concept of their version of their self worth.

I find this spin hilarious. Do you know how much lower a Netjets pilot is paid vs. his counterpart in the Part 91 world (same aircraft type)? Do you? I'd like you to answer the following questions (yes or no):

1. Do you think paying a high-time Citation X Captain $55-60K per year is reasonable?

2. Do you think Sovereign or Falcon 2000 FOs requesting more than $35K per year in salary is unreasonable?

3. Do you think continuing to offer these wage levels will help recruitment of the experienced pilots NJA likes to brag about to potential owners?

Your suggestion that NJA pilots want you to pay them "anything they want" is ludicrous and another great example of spin. I have heard others on this board that 90% of the average would be appreciated. I like your use of "basis" instead of "bases." You can't fool all of us...

 

[gunfyter]

from taking all the work and planes to NJI and avoiding the Union all together?

That would be great... the company voluntarilly submitting to single carrier!

 

[Heavy Set]

Duke, Don't bother trying to explain it to them. Their concept is pay the pilots what they want or have no company. Next time they will be asking for astronaunt wages. The Union basis it's concepts on nothing more than their wants regardless of the effect on the company. The Union will never understand the concept of business, just the concept of their version of their self worth.

Hey Troll, I found this from another posting (taken from an AIN article):

According to the pilots’ union, International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) Local 1108, NetJets put forth a proposal that “offered less than a $300 per month increase for a five-year captain.” Figures released by the union show the divide that exists between labor and management; the union seeks an annual salary of $114,156 for a fifth-year captain and $74,202 for a fifth-year first officer, equating to the 90th percentile of the NBAA Compensation and Benchmark Survey. The company’s latest proposal is $71,752 and $44,200, respectively, putting the pay in the 10th percentile of the NBAA salary survey.


Perhaps you can tell me how you expect to recruit high-time and experienced pilots with those figures? Any idea why NJA is starting to lose more and more pilots? Hmmmmm. What a joke!!!!!! I don't care if this is still a negotiation. How could anyone be "proud" to work for such a cheap organization?

I hope that anyone considering joining this company thinks long and hard about how they expect to be treated in the future... Certainly the pilot group will get zero respect and not be viewed as valued team members. I bet the average Manager at Dairy Queen (one of Warren's many other portfolio companies) earns more annually - and they get free ice cream too...

 

[TheTruthCMH]

We're not asking for 200 percent of NBAA just 90 percentile of NBAA.

How will the company and union come to an agreement about paying 90th percentile if all the fleets are based on the same pay rates? How do you break out the individual airplanes without hurting the feelings of the guys flying the 400 that have been here for a long time?

In other words, if the 90th percentile pay on the Falcon is $128K (like GEX mentioned, I don't know that it is), then do you pay the 400XP pilots the same if it's just one pay scale?

 

[gunfyter]

One payscale:

I think the guys in the Falcon get hosed... and those in the 400XP do better relative to the outside world is the answer.

Right now everybody is hosed.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

One payscale:

I think the guys in the Falcon get hosed... and those in the 400XP do better relative to the outside world is the answer.

Right now everybody is hosed.

Which plane do you or the union propose they use for the 90th percentile?

 

[dime line]

Hey Gunfyter I fly contract for a guy that owns a BeechJet 400 (no A here) who makes 100,000 salary. He flys for a family that uses the BJ as the family stationwagon. Great family as well. They don't abuse him and he has plenty of time off. Also there was a Diamond CP position in Central FL paying 98,000, but I don't know anything about that gig, could be the worst job out there but at least they pay.

 

[x402]

Which plane do you or the union propose they use for the 90th percentile?

That's a moronic question, again, surface bargining. How low can we go? They haven't gotten close to a median of the composite of the fleets. So please take your idiotic views go back to the law firm that has hired you and tell them you have failed and need a quarter to call home for a ride.

 

[linder]

actually i did 900hrs last year.

Just curious Diesel but does that 900 hours include your part time King Air job?

 

[TheTruthCMH]

That's a moronic question, again, surface bargining. How low can we go? They haven't gotten close to a median of the composite of the fleets. So please take your idiotic views go back to the law firm that has hired you and tell them you have failed and need a quarter to call home for a ride.

Why the need for the hatred? Are you losing faith? I don't belittle anyone on these boards, why do you feel the need? You don't know who I am and I don't know who you are, I am here for some open dialogue.

I was merely asking a simple question, there are some that read these boards that would truly like to know and they are IN THE KNOW.

So, nothing positive, don't say anything at all.

 

[2EASYPilot]

"In other words, if the 90th percentile pay on the Falcon is $128K (like GEX mentioned, I don't know that it is), then do you pay the 400XP pilots the same if it's just one pay scale?"

Not sure how many 5 year captains are making 128K after five years and my guess would that to be in the 90 percentile of NBAA wages would take much longer than 5 years at most 91 operations with the possible exception of the East coast. Our compensation department has chosen to not use the NBAA survey but does use the Stanton survey information. A solid 91 operation considers much more than basic pay as part of the compensation package i.e., bonuses, insurance, 401K etc. No flames please, I just would hope you are realistic in your demands otherwise happiness will be elusive.

 

[Diesel]

No it doesn't. I don't even count the king air flying. Those are gravy run trips.

The 900hrs was when I was an instructor in the U boat.

Now with the X if the plane doesn't break I'll do less than that. Some weeks though you end up flying 40hrs a week. That adds up pretty quick.

 

[gunfyter]

Which plane do you or the union propose they use for the 90th percentile?

The G-V

Actually. I favored Pay by type... but I am in a very small miniority I was shocked to discover.

Ok I saw the percentile of seniority based payscale. I am holding the same Aircraft and seat I would hold if we had a Re-bid. So it makes no difference to me.

Either way I expect to be paid NBAA Citation X-pay. Right now I am collecting less than COTA bus driver pay

 

[FlyFlyFly]

1. Do you think paying a high-time Citation X Captain $55-60K per year is reasonable?

2. Do you think Sovereign or Falcon 2000 FOs requesting more than $35K per year in salary is unreasonable?

No it is not reasonable pay. I would expect most pilots to turn down a job that would offer that kind of pay.

Problem is, there are many pilots out there that view that as acceptable, or they wouldn't accept the job in the first place.

I am continually amazed at the low pay that pilots are willing to accept at regionals and fractionals.

Why do they do it? Why do they say yes to a job that pays worse than a frickin' night manager at Quik Trip?

Why do they say yes to a job with a salary that would embarass an over the road truck driver?

Why?