Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Omni Omni VOR. I have always believed there are always paybacks. I much rather be you than anyone who who crossed the line.... I rather fly non-sched from Willow.

A few years ago I took a jumpseat on Continental. The Captain welcomed me into the cockpit. He introduced himself. I am Frank, he said. Oh this is Bill... he's a S....

Not how I would have liked to complete a career at a major.

So yes I rather be you... then Bill.

Again WOW. I am amazed that adult professionals would be so concerned with what others think. This sounds like high school. "cross this line and I'll kick your ass". I got in alot of fights. I always took that challenge. The fact that you would rather have a sh$t job than have some dork pilots not talk to you for something you did in '83, wow.

The only reason I would ever NOT cross a picket line, is if I believed in the cause. Otherwise, any union could strike for any reason (right or wrong) and I would blindly follow. Brings us right back to your first post. Kinda' sounds like blind faith.

But yes, you are right. It's not directly my fight, don't work for NetJets, never been in a union, etc. But really, don't be so insecure and don't worry so much about what others think (except your loved ones).

Ace

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Good question. The line will still be there.

I actually believe that is exactly the plan. When we strike everybody will be fired. We are prepared.

How long will it take to train and relese to the line 2100 pilots?

Good morning Mr Owner. I am Capt Jim. I just got my Citation X type rating yesterday. This is great. A few weeks ago the biggest plane I have ever flown before was a Cessna 441. I am not too sure how all these buttons work on the FMS. We're going green needles today.

...and what was NetJets pulling in before the strike? experienced pilots? try flight instructors with a little padded charter or freight time....who else would work for those wages? an experienced corporate pilot? hardly....maybe someone sick of a regional but thats about it.

shiiit buddy, ....a 441 pilot wouldnt come work for your 24K/yr!!!! he/she probably makes 2X that on his 441!

 

[Diesel]

awww man here come the corporate pilots chiming in explaining to us how the world is.

STMFD.

 

[noturgearb!tch]

Hey, El Chupacabra

If I fly my a/c, for my owners, on my 135cert., operating under my op. specs. you will call me a Scab.

well I believe as do many attorneys, that you statement is "Slanderous and Malicious, Causing Undue Stress and Mental Anguish."

SCAB a : a contemptible person b (YOU) (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike.

Last time I checked I have not interviewed with NJA, I am employed, happily I might add. I aint taking you job. I am just doing MINE.

Chew on that, toast me, and start walking.

P.S. LAST OWNER I WORKED FOR, SOLD THE A/C AND BOUGHT A SHARE. AND PUT ME OUT ON THE STREET.

YOU MY MAN ARE MY SCAB.

 

[h25b]

Hey, El Chupacabra

If I fly my a/c, for my owners, on my 135cert., operating under my op. specs. you will call me a Scab.

well I believe as do many attorneys, that you statement is "Slanderous and Malicious, Causing Undue Stress and Mental Anguish."

SCAB a : a contemptible person b (YOU) (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike.

Last time I checked I have not interviewed with NJA, I am employed, happily I might add. I aint taking you job. I am just doing MINE.

Chew on that, toast me, and start walking.

P.S. LAST OWNER I WORKED FOR, SOLD THE A/C AND BOUGHT A SHARE. AND PUT ME OUT ON THE STREET.

YOU MY MAN ARE MY SCAB.

They seem to all be backing away from their previous SCAB making threats for the sell-offs...

 

[johnny taliban]

shiiit buddy, ....a 441 pilot wouldnt come work for your 24K/yr!!!! he/she probably makes 2X that on his 441!

Now that is funny! Seriously,I would love to meet the tool that crosses that picket line for those wages.

LMAO ,
Johnny

 

[netjetwife]

So true! It's not worth the risk that the NJ pilots are right and those who fly "struck work" will wind up wearing a scarlet letter that they can never shake. Far better to be sick that day. It'd be so much better if all of the pilots could stand together and present a united front that would bring a successful resolution that has the potential to raise wages across the industry. What if the srtike ended very quickly? Would it have been worth it to cross the line? I think not.

I feel badly for ALL underpaid pilots and believe that corrections need to be made. As always, someone has to lead the way. Please consider lending support to a cause that is bound to raise the bar for pilots outside of NJA, as well.

 

[FracCapt]

So true! It's not worth the risk that the NJ pilots are right and those who fly "struck work" will wind up wearing a scarlet letter that they can never shake. Far better to be sick that day.

If, by this, you are saying that all pilots that are doing charter sell off flights in the even of a strike should just call in sick and/or refuse to do the flights....you're way out of touch with reality.

I don't think that anybody that works for THEIR charter company, doing 135 sell off trips that just happen to be paid for by Netjets, is in any way a scab. If they fly NJA aircraft, then YES - they ARE a scab.

Those charter pilots don't have a dog in this fight, and quite honestly, I don't think half of them would have a clue that NJA pilots were on strike. Don't even try to perpetuate the lame threat that all pilots that fly any NJA charter trips are scabs.

 

[netjetwife]

I put the words "struck work" in quotation marks to let you know it is something I've been told. I've also heard that the charter pilots DO know when they're flying a NJ job. The idea of calling in sick came from my husband. I can see how the idea of winding up a scab would be a sickening thought. He would never cross a line and there are, doubtless, many other pilots out there who would refuse to as well. I am not trying to perpetuate anything. I'm merely asking pilots to lend their support to a worthy cause, and expressing an opinion that it wouldn't be a risk worth taking, IMHO.

 

[h25b]

I put the words "struck work" in quotation marks to let you know it is something I've been told. I've also heard that the charter pilots DO know when they're flying a NJ job. The idea of calling in sick came from my husband. I can see how the idea of winding up a scab would be a sickening thought. He would never cross a line and there are, doubtless, many other pilots out there who would refuse to as well. I am not trying to perpetuate anything. I'm merely asking pilots to lend their support to a worthy cause, and expressing an opinion that it wouldn't be a risk worth taking, IMHO.

This is where you are quickly eroding whatever outsite support you might have. NOONE outside of the fractional industry will EVER support your efforts if you continue with that ridiculous SCAB threat BS (which is exactly what it is). This talk has turned me from first truely supporting your efforts to now frankly not giving a s^&t if you ever get a raise...

As for the calling in sick for a NetJets sell-off trip ... This really shows me that your husband (to which I am greatful for his military service) doesn't have a clue about how life outside a fractional is. Geez, your ignorance is astounding lady.

Remember... It's always better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt... This is clearly the case here. Next time your husband gets a bright idea like this one, keep it to yourself to save yourself the embarassment.

 

[G100driver]

NetJetwife, I have been a supporter of yours in the past but you are way off base. Non-unionized workers who are often working for indivduals do not have the "luxury" of calling in sick if they are well.

If I was a charter pilot (thank goodness I am not) I would just have to grin and bear it if I was flying a NetJet charter. It is not as if I am being employed to fly a QS aircraft.

Nice, try asking us to stick together on this, but you cannot ask 135 pilots to get fired without recourse to add in your fight. After all, the last thing that you need is a bunch more of unemployed pilots out there. Hungry pilots might be more willing to cross the line and screw us all over.

Good luck on getting they pay that your family deserves.

 

[johnny taliban]

Netjetwife,
I do not think you get it. The last thing you or anyone at Netjets needs to be concerned with are "SCABS" crossing a picket line. Who in the HE!! would cross a picket line for poverty wages??? You guys are not Eastern Airlines.

Johnny
P.S. good luck in the negotiations

 

[PseudoName]

I've also heard that the charter pilots DO know when they're flying a NJ job. The idea of calling in sick came from my husband. I'm merely asking pilots to lend their support to a worthy cause, and expressing an opinion that it wouldn't be a risk worth taking, IMHO.

Actually all "sell offs" are flown for Executive Jet Management Charter Services. The last time I looked, that company does not have a unionized pilot group.

You want me to call in sick for an EJM charter??? Do any of you NetJet groupies have any clue what happens if I were to do that??? The airplane is grounded, period! Because the owner only has two pilots.......yes, two! I know it is hard for the NetJet crowd to believe but many corporate operators do not have the luxury of having a plethora of pilots available to crew their aircraft. You guys think the grass is so green on this side, our QOL is so much better, we are treated with more respect, blah, blah, blah.....GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!! If I call in sick for every EJM trip over the next two months.....my owner could lose thousands of $$$ of revenue and I will most likely lose my job just to support a "worthy cause" for pilots of a company who put guys like me on the street because an owner closed the flight department and bought a share.

If the pilots and wives of NetJets would spend the same amount of time researching the rest of the corporate aviation world as they do moaning and complaining.....maybe they would get a clue what is reasonable and fair compensation package for a pilot.

Up until now, I had hoped you guys would never go on strike. I had even talked with my charter sales manager about the situation at NJA and the reason for the increased sell-offs we are experiencing. Since then, we have been telling EJM our entire fleet is busy on the day they were requesting....to help your cause. Also, because like many other companies, we are busy without EJM sell offs. However, after seeing your posts over the past few days, all the greed, all the complaining, all the whining, all I will say is.....I HOPE YOU STRIKE!

 

[netjetwife]

You know, I didn't have to put myself in the line of fire on this issue! I did it because I can see both sides and DO feel for ALL aviation families--you could just as well take the Net off of my "name". If there's an answer to this very difficult situation, then someone offer it up. How do you support the NJ strike and help raise wages across the industry, then?? It just seems to me that the stronger the effect of the strike, the shorter it will be.

And before flaming me, you guys should realize that my post is based on a belief that a strike by NJ pilots would be very short-lived and I'd hate to see you wind up with the label (I'm not sure WHO'S right in their assertions) if it turns out that the NJ pilots ARE right. So yes, I AM asking for your support and also hoping that you will all elect to be "safe rather than sorry".

Thanks for the support Johnny. The concern is that charter pilots will help the company out, thereby dragging the whole thing out longer than it would otherwise have gone. Let's all just hope that informational picketing will render this discussion moot, and that the company will get the message. One would think that banners being towed over the Kentucky Derby would make it hard to miss

 

[I-R-DXR]

Man or Man what a situation we have here.

The common thought is that anyone who works in the “casino” or “crystal palace” is automatically against the pilot group. Let me take the time to explain the common appearance from the casino.

First let me give you “Exhibit A” (it will help later on)

The extremely low pay that NetJets pilots make is a pay they agreed to. Let me type that real slow again in a different way. A Captain wannabe submitted a resume into NJ and was then called in for an interview. During the course of said interview compensation was offered. That applicant had two(2) choices.

1. Take job
2. Walk away
   
   
   
   

<End of Exhibit A>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'll even put this into a personal prospective. Years ago when I was about to graduate DXR school companies recruited at the school. I knew the minimum I could accept to support my family. When I entered into the first interview all was well until pay was brought up. They offered me 10.50 an hour. I immediately got up said thank you for your time and went to the next interview. I had a minimum pay that I would accept – and they did not offer it.


First lets start with the reason why most “casino” workers seem anti union.

Now with the company selling their Kool-Aid and ASAP selling their's, it comes down to what appears to be happening. This being based of what you think is the truth and what you think is going on.

Last year a negotiated TA was agreed to by both the company and the MEC. It was voted down by the pilot group based on what appeared to be a grass roots effort by a group called “Strong Union”. After the TA was voted down it was in the unions turn to come up with an offer.

The unions offer was said to be double the current pay that each NetJets pilot agreed to (See Exhibit A)

An offer the Company said it can not afford. Thus my question a while ago – has any union doubled their pay. I'm sorry but as a common man I can't think of ANY company prepared to double the pay of a workforce of 2000+. If you double 30k to 60k each multiplied by 2000 that sure as hell ain't no pennies.

Since that time I have read that the company has made at least one offer (maybe 2), offered an auditor (said to be incapable), and offered to show financial records (denied a NDA).

How has this appeared to the lay person on the sidelines? It gives the appearance that the company is trying to negotiate in good faith while the union has made one (1) offer and not budged on it. I have not read anywhere where the union offered their own auditor or what they offered to give up.

What has the union offered? Negotiating is give a little get a little – right? I have not read/seen/heard anything the union was willing to give up as part of the negotiation. I'm sorry if your answer is “we have given enough over the past XX years” -- (see Exhibit A.)

If the returning argument is that each pilot is worth the price they are asking. You may very well be right - BUT we are worth what we accept. No more - No less. (See Exhibit A). A first year pilot at any company should be paid more than a first year Dispatcher or Crew Servicer.

One can complain about how much its the managements fault or how bad your family is because of the substandard pay (insert NJW comment here). It all boils down to the root problem caused by the pilot himself (See Exhibit A). That is why you don't have much sympathy folks. The root cause is accepting a sub-standard wage with promises.

Thoughts:
casino wife-

Not real sure on this whole union/strike thing works, but doesn't the company have the option of firing everyone if they strike? If all of the pilots are fired, then there is no picket line to cross.

How can they be labeled scabs if they are now accepting a "non-union" job you no longer have?

LOL – man that's a good name. As much as I don't want to think about it, you bring up a good point.

noturgearb!tch-

(3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike.

and

“A Scab is a person doing what you would be doing if you weren't on strike”
“a scab takes your job, a job he could not get under normal circumstances”

Are you legally on strike if you are fired? Technically you are unemployed right? So then they are not scabs or replacements they are new hires right?

Lets hope it NEVER comes to that M-Kay?

So am I biased for the company? I'd have to say yes. I accepted a job a pay and benefits I wanted. They have always treated me well. I have good pay, great benefits, great insurance. All things I wanted to take the job. Now that job is being threatened by a group that “appears” not to being negotiating, but having a gun to the companies head with a demand. What appears to be the root cause to me?

See Exhibit A

I want you guys to get a contract you can live with and one the company can too. I don't want new hires, I want to support the great group I have. I'm not trying to flame anyone here – just being bluntly honest.

But then again Im just a Dispatcher - or am I
.

 

[Diesel]

Who really cares what you want. Honestly. You can't vote so it doesn't matter.

We can talk forever and you'll may or may not see our side. I voted no and will continue to vote no until it is right.

ONCE AGAIN READ WHAT THE COMPANY WANTED US TO DO TO ACCEPT 106K at 5years.

No 401k
No health benefits
6/4 schedule
less vacation
the list continues. Yeah the company is really serious. This is worst than the TA.

Trust me you don't want honesty.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

You know, I didn't have to put myself in the line of fire on this issue! I did it because I can see both sides and DO feel for ALL aviation families--you could just as well take the Net off of my "name". If there's an answer to this very difficult situation, then someone offer it up. How do you support the NJ strike and help raise wages across the industry, then?? It just seems to me that the stronger the effect of the strike, the shorter it will be.

And before flaming me, you guys should realize that my post is based on a belief that a strike by NJ pilots would be very short-lived and I'd hate to see you wind up with the label (I'm not sure WHO'S right in their assertions) if it turns out that the NJ pilots ARE right. So yes, I AM asking for your support and also hoping that you will all elect to be "safe rather than sorry".

Thanks for the support Johnny. The concern is that charter pilots will help the company out, thereby dragging the whole thing out longer than it would otherwise have gone. Let's all just hope that informational picketing will render this discussion moot, and that the company will get the message. One would think that banners being towed over the Kentucky Derby would make it hard to miss

This is what's wrong with your post: "call in sick that day". That is called LYING. I don't lie to the person who has paid me a paycheck for years and years. Maybe you would to help your cause. Let's all look up ethics. And if you say that you have to fight fire with fire, let's go back to something your mother taught you: Two wrongs DON'T make a right.

Ace

 

[Diesel]

lets get this back on track.

OUR FIGHT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE 135 GUYS. They are working for some other guy and have no protection. I'm not going to ask my buddies to get in deep shizzle with their boss.

OUR FIGHT IS OUR FIGHT. If you want to support us fine that's great but don't lose your jobs over it.

Enough allready. ARRRGH

 

[netjetwife]

Ace, that is not at all what I'd say. I stated my case, I thought, when I said that the thought of being called a scab is sickening. One only has to read this board to see the emotions and stress generated by just TALKING about the possibility, much less, actually being faced with the reality of the situation. I truly DO believe that it would be very upsetting and very much a distraction to those involved.

 

[semperfido]

Man or Man what a situation we have here.


.

i doubt the pilots give a rat's patooty what you think. they should be compensated like every other corp pilot. end of story. your job isn't in the same league. so go back to the dispatch forum and take the crewservice moron with you.