Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[dsptchrnja]

I'll gladly face anyone when this is finished, but you have already stated you could care less who's flying, you dispatch ac, not pilots.

I did?

 

[dsptchrnja]

Should we just take what is offered and be thankfull we get to fly shiny little jets for America's elite.

Yes. You already chose to do it once.

That's what the rest of the non-union world does. (I know, I know, your entitled)

Otherwise, I thought you had objectivity in your post. I can tell you I understand your point of view.

 

[x402]

Sorry, that quote came from the clown and I'll still face anyone who believes we are/were the the greedy sob's that killed NJA. Fish rot from the head. Not unlike big corporations.

 

[Live4flyng]

Let me see if I understand your philosophy. Anyone who agrees with you is entitled to be a professional. Talk about true colors.

Where exactly did I state only those who agree with me are "entitled to be a professional"?

That's what the rest of the non-union world does. (I know, I know, your entitled)

Still waiting for some objectivity from your posts. You believe the rest of the non-union world just takes what is handed to them without any negotiating? Ok, I no longer believe you are management. Never said anything about being a "Mole" either. I DAM sure never said anything about being "ENTITLED"!

Our union is anything but helpless. We are not looking for sympathy or a hand-out either. I'm sorry to hear you have no desire to educate yourself on the state of negotiations. There are two sides to every story, and the one you are reading on the crewops webiste is not even half accurate.

As your professional counterpart alluded to, you dispatch A/C not pilots. We are all replaceable. If I were you, I would be worried too.

 

[pilotyip]

As I have said before, and not to flame, a $70K-$90K/yr job is better than no job. Going on strike is like going to war. There is fog of war that dissolves all plans in the chaos of battle. Not all battles or strikes are successful. The outcome could be far different than anyone on either side has planned for; you guys are going where no man has gone before. Striking against rich people will be interesting to watch.

 

[Live4flyng]

As I have said before, and not to flame, a $70K-$90K/yr job is better than no job.

OK, how would you suggest we go about getting $70-90K/year? Management is not offering that and seems intent on moving backwards from the $27-50K/year the majority of pilots are making now. There are plenty of jobs out there that already pay this.

 

[El Chupacabra]

is better than no job

​

A ringing endorsement.

Strike Ballot: vote YES

 

[Live4flyng]

Earnings improved in 2004' to $191 million. Substantially higher than the $72 million in 2003' for Flight Services. Even after subsidising all other non-union companies to include Netjets Europe. Straight from the Berkshire Hathaway annual report.

My vote will be YES too.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Rumor mill says the latest offer was six figures after 5 years as a Cpt.

is that true?

.

No it is a big fat LIE.

 

[buttercup]

As I have said before, and not to flame, a $70K-$90K/yr job is better than no job. Going on strike is like going to war. There is fog of war that dissolves all plans in the chaos of battle. Not all battles or strikes are successful. The outcome could be far different than anyone on either side has planned for; you guys are going where no man has gone before. Striking against rich people will be interesting to watch.

70-90k is a year end bonus it's not a job. Thank you for reminding my why I'm leaving this industry after I get retro. Sir, it's alright to like your job and get paid a respectable wage.

 

[Fracster]

[QUOTE What's up with him refusing (again) to have the companies finances reviewed by an independent third party? ][/QUOTE]

The union is willing to review the companies financial reports. The company is not willing to turn over all the documents. NJA has a specific list of documents it is willing to allow an independent review of. These documents, in essence, show how much has come in and how much is left at the end.
As a union we want to see what is happening in the middle. This information management wont share with the union and I am sure for good reason. It is not rocket science to know that any accountant worth his salt can move money around. Heck, the fact that NJA will pay over $100 for a can of oil or refuse to negotiate prices with catering, etc, shows you they are happy with the current situation.
The over spending, the poor scheduling, the poor maintenance and all the other areas draining the company benefit them during these mediated negotiations. If the union had access to the documentation they requested we would be able to show how much waste there is.
The two dispatch guys on this board I am sure mean well. I applaud you for coming on the board and trying to find some answers but there is so much more going on that management spinning can't account for. There is very little spin on the union information. It is in fact very factual. The salaries, the waste, the mismanagement, these are all true. Santulli has an over inflated ego and Boisture has very little skill in the management department.

Lastly, and I mean no disrespect, it doesn't matter what people in Bridgeway think of us. It does not matter if we are supported during a strike. Scheduling already does a poor job, owner services has been throwing us under the bus for years so what is going to change. Very little in fact.

 

[NJACrewservicer]

I gotta be honest with you....I'm scared $hitless. I am a 27 year old with $35,000 student loan to re-pay, a mortgage and a kid on the way. I don't know where I am going to go if I get laid-off. Not to many places to work around the country ordering crew food. I know you don't care about me, why bother to tell you my story. It is the dispatchers, crew services, schedulers, owners services and travel folks (just to name a few behind-the-sceners) who are at the risk of loosing their jobs just because you can't afford to purchase your much desired toys.

Let me ask you something. You (the pilot group) have stated that you know the company is more profitable than they are leading you to beleive, right? What makes you think that the company won't just count their losses, bend over grab their ankles and take it where the sun don't shine for 6-12 months until they can get a new hire class their type ratings? If you have done your homework, then you know that WB hates unions. He has broken them before and is not afraid to break another. Why not? He has deep pockets right? Sell off's for a year!

Let me also say that I am with you guys. I agree that you could probably be paid a little more. I think that you are going about it the wrong way. DNIF's, fatigue calls "just to make a point" to the company is not the way to get things done. Some other pilot who is just as tired as you are is gonna have to be the recovery for that trip and he didn't get his crew food either. We are all on the same team. When you try to prove a point you are just screwing your own brethren pilot group. It is a never ending circle.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

I gotta be honest with you....I'm scared $hitless. I am a 27 year old with $35,000 student loan to re-pay, a mortgage and a kid on the way. I don't know where I am going to go if I get laid-off. Not to many places to work around the country ordering crew food. I know you don't care about me, why bother to tell you my story. It is the dispatchers, crew services, schedulers, owners services and travel folks (just to name a few behind-the-sceners) who are at the risk of loosing their jobs just because you can't afford to purchase your much desired toys.

Let me ask you something. You (the pilot group) have stated that you know the company is more profitable than they are leading you to beleive, right? What makes you think that the company won't just count their losses, bend over grab their ankles and take it where the sun don't shine for 6-12 months until they can get a new hire class their type ratings? If you have done your homework, then you know that WB hates unions. He has broken them before and is not afraid to break another. Why not? He has deep pockets right? Sell off's for a year!

Let me also say that I am with you guys. I agree that you could probably be paid a little more. I think that you are going about it the wrong way. DNIF's, fatigue calls "just to make a point" to the company is not the way to get things done. Some other pilot who is just as tired as you are is gonna have to be the recovery for that trip and he didn't get his crew food either. We are all on the same team. When you try to prove a point you are just screwing your own brethren pilot group. It is a never ending circle.

Very respectfully, you obviously do not understand what is going on. Toys ? Is that what you think this is all about ? Your entire post lost all credibility with this silly, stupid, boneheaded reference. We fully understand that we are a team but your post seems to suggest that we should just stop everything for YOUR interests. NO PILOT WANTS TO STRIKE, but we will if we must. You also contradict yourself. If you are so positive that the company will just sell off all of our trips for a year, your job should be secure, SCAB pilots need to eat too ! As for your "assumption/accusation" that pilots are DNIF'ing or calling in fatigued because of the contract, you are WAY OFF BASE ! Get out of your "chair" and go on ONE TOUR with an ultra crew for 7 days...we'll see how "spunky" you are at then end of four or five 14 hour days. You obviously do not understand a great deal about what we do on the road. We do appreciate your "support" though.

 

[Mach92]

I gotta be honest with you....I'm scared $hitless. I am a 27 year old with $35,000 student loan to re-pay, a mortgage and a kid on the way. I don't know where I am going to go if I get laid-off. Not to many places to work around the country ordering crew food. I know you don't care about me, why bother to tell you my story. It is the dispatchers, crew services, schedulers, owners services and travel folks (just to name a few behind-the-sceners) who are at the risk of loosing their jobs just because you can't afford to purchase your much desired toys.

Let me ask you something. You (the pilot group) have stated that you know the company is more profitable than they are leading you to beleive, right? What makes you think that the company won't just count their losses, bend over grab their ankles and take it where the sun don't shine for 6-12 months until they can get a new hire class their type ratings? If you have done your homework, then you know that WB hates unions. He has broken them before and is not afraid to break another. Why not? He has deep pockets right? Sell off's for a year!

Let me also say that I am with you guys. I agree that you could probably be paid a little more. I think that you are going about it the wrong way. DNIF's, fatigue calls "just to make a point" to the company is not the way to get things done. Some other pilot who is just as tired as you are is gonna have to be the recovery for that trip and he didn't get his crew food either. We are all on the same team. When you try to prove a point you are just screwing your own brethren pilot group. It is a never ending circle.

How dare you impley that I as a NetJet pilot call in "fatigue" just to do so. Maybe you should spend a week on the road with us. Maybe you should be at a Embassy suites on a sat night when the place is packed with weddings. People partying all night long as one would expect from a wedding. Now here is US the pilot trying to sleep for our 4 or 5am show to fly a 14 hour day for NetJets. Guess what sh!t happens and if were tired we are TIRED. Would you rather have us kill an owner or crash a plane? WE might be one pissed off pilot group but to say we are doing this or doing that because saftey is NOT number 1 is a lie!

 

[El Chupacabra]

are at the risk of loosing their jobs just because you can't afford to purchase your much desired toys.

​

No ... because management won't do the right thing and pay the pilots. Their latest off was to effectively raise out pay ZERO.

Raising the gross figure but requiring us to pay out of that:

The cost of the health insurance.

Company travel expenses (eg. per diem)

No 401K for pilots

Eliminate hourly overtime.

​

The value of the above items taken away from us is $25 to $30. So when they spread the rumour that they offered 6 figures to pilots ... you have to deduct this to get the truth.

Also that 6 figures was only if I work 37 more days a year than I do now. If I work the same number of days I work now its 86k. When I subtract the $25K of the value of benefits taken away I come out with $61K... The exact same pay a 5th yr Captain collects today. Therefore they offered NO RAISE! Its $8K LESS than was offered in the TA we rejected last Fall.

So when the company says they are bargaining in good faith. They are NOT telling the Truth.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

NJACrewservicer, the more I read your post the more disgust I feel that you are actually doing ANY coordinating for this pilot group. Your FATIGUE accusation and TOYS reference is the most "telling." If you really believe that our objectives are so trivial then I would DEFINITELY start looking for another job 'cause it ain't gettin' better anytime soon. If you have a problem with a pilot calling in fatigued BECAUSE HE IS FATIGUED, please find another job. The biggest mistake you could ever make is to challenge one of us "tired" pilots. Just take the message and pass it on, we don't give a rat's ass what you THINK ! We will continue to follow the FAR's and make those decisions that permit us to fly these airplanes properly and most importantly, safely.

A strike is IMMINENT and PROBABLE in my estimation and you need to start proactively looking for another line of work. "Ordering crew food" just doesn't seem to be a long-term, viable, "professional" future for you. Your post had NOTHING to do with supporting us, it was all about YOU.

Now, let me re-iterate, we don't WANT a strike but it may be necessary. We don't WANT you on unemployment, but you should be looking for other work just in case. We don't WANT Netjets to go out of business but that is THEIR DECISION, not ours. Stop blaming those folks on the front lines and start looking UP your chain of command. WE are not the problem.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Would someone please fill in the blanks on what your group is actually asking for on a monthly basis?

-------CAPT------F/O
YR 1
YR 2
YR 3
YR 4
YR 5

 

[Sun Tzu]

Assman, you can't be serious!!!

 

[netjetwife]

TOYS??!! I personally know a NJ pilot's family that was feeding their 2 kids with WIC--govt assistance--last year before he got bypass pay. If not for the solidarity of the union, the state would still be feeding his kids. As it is, 18% of the pilot force qualifies for govt assistance. The vast majority of the rest of us are just covering the basics--like your family.

My husband comes home exhausted from his 70-plus hour work week on the road. If he calls in fatigued during his tour, it is so that he can recoup the energy needed to continue the grueling pace safely and professionally.

If the rest of the NJ employees would realize that our families are just like yours, and understand that the pilots WANT to make this a career job, you'd be able to look at the situation with more objectivity and less company-induced fear and blame.

 

[Grizz]

TOYS??!!

Yeah,

The first TOY we're going to get is a new roof on our house. We're getting water damage in a couple of spots that we've had repaired a few times but hey - what the heck. It's only water damage.

The second TOY we're going to get is a replacement for the 1989 Mazda pick-up that my wife drives around. We bought it new in 89 right after I made Captain in the AF. It's burning a bit of oil now and one of the doors has rust eating through but other than that it's cherry.

We're big toy buyers. Right...

NJACrewservicer - shut your pie hole until you know what you're talking about. Your post was insulting and totally uncalled for.