Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[netjetwife]

I agree with Lejet55. Without a good contract, many will leave. But it is a job where working conditions and wages are negotiated so it only makes sense for the pilots to try to make the job they enjoy one they can afford to stay at.

 

[FracCapt]

FracCapt, it isn't "rhetoric" that motivates my posts, but a genuine concern for those caught in a "sticky" situation.
....
It was my hope that an open-minded discussion might yield ideas of how to handle the problem should it arise.

It's obvious you're looking out for nobody but yourself and your family. Which is what those that you are asking to support you at the risk of their livelihoods will do....look out for themselves and their family.

No, I don't expect "EVERYBODY in the ENTIRE aviation industry" to be interested. I did click on the FRACTIONAL section of the board

But earlier you posted....

And before flaming me, you guys should realize that my post is based on a belief that a strike by NJ pilots would be very short-lived and I'd hate to see you wind up with the label (I'm not sure WHO'S right in their assertions) if it turns out that the NJ pilots ARE right. So yes, I AM asking for your support and also hoping that you will all elect to be "safe rather than sorry".

So...was that not directed at people OUTSIDE of fractional aviation? 135 pilots are not part of fractional aviation....yet, you are telling them that they should call in sick because they are stressed about the fact that some guys say they will be called a scab if they do ANY charter trips for NJA.

Sorry, you're case isn't getting any better.

Happy Mothers Day

 

[DO-82 driver]

I would love to see how our owners would respond to the variations in service they would get. I'm not saying that the vendors are unsafe, I'm just saying that the type of service is going to vary from one vendor to another. Considering that we fly some of the riches people in the world I wonder how they are going to respond to these non-standard practices.

Might THEY feel there is a compromise in safety? The owners don't know any better, they are used to the way NetJets pilots did things. After all, NetJets prides itself on the standardization of its crews and standardization equates to safety.. Hey, I'm not making this up...this is what the sales people tell the owners. Now they are telling the owners that non-standardization is OK.

Many of our owners will not accept vendor flights because they feel they paid for NetJets pilots and that's what they want. Heck, its their money.

 

[semperfido]

I would love to see how our owners would respond to the variations in service they would get. I'm not saying that the vendors are unsafe, I'm just saying that the type of service is going to vary from one vendor to another. Considering that we fly some of the riches people in the world I wonder how they are going to respond to these non-standard practices.

Might THEY feel there is a compromise in safety? The owners don't know any better, they are used to the way NetJets pilots did things. After all, NetJets prides itself on the standardization of its crews and standardization equates to safety.. Hey, I'm not making this up...this is what the sales people tell the owners. Now they are telling the owners that non-standardization is OK.

Many of our owners will not accept vendor flights because they feel they paid for NetJets pilots and that's what they want. Heck, its their money.

probably all true....i wonder what Imus (g4) thinks? he is a huge promoter of net jets. along with Bo (citation 10). they always go on and on ad infinitum about how great it is. santooooli is probably paying them a pretty penny

 

[h25b]

I would love to see how our owners would respond to the variations in service they would get. I'm not saying that the vendors are unsafe, I'm just saying that the type of service is going to vary from one vendor to another. Considering that we fly some of the riches people in the world I wonder how they are going to respond to these non-standard practices. Might THEY feel there is a compromise in safety? The owners don't know any better, they are used to the way NetJets pilots did things. After all, NetJets prides itself on the standardization of its crews and standardization equates to safety.. Hey, I'm not making this up...this is what the sales people tell the owners. Now they are telling the owners that non-standardization is OK. Many of our owners will not accept vendor flights because they feel they paid for NetJets pilots and that's what they want. Heck, its their money.

I'm sure it will go over like a fart in church ... I'd like to know the details of the owner's agreements. What recourse do they have anyway ?

 

[DO-82 driver]

I don't know what recourse they have but a number of the owners I flew last week were insistant that "yellow ties" be up front.

I thanked them for their support....I did not answer any other questions they had...I just referred them to the web site.

Playing by the book.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Semperfido-

...the next 5 weeks are going to go by painfully slow

Diesel-

awww man here come the corporate pilots chiming in explaining to us how the world is.

STMFD.

It is becoming more and more obvious that there was NEVER any intent to negotiate a contract. Like I said you make your offer (read demand) and put a gun to the companies head with the threat of strike.

“STMFD”

That wouldn't be SHUT THE MOTHER *UCKER DOWN would it? I would guess those words are straight form the SU leadership huh? I see the intent to “negotiate” from its members.

I cant see ANY company willing or able to double a workforce of over 2000+ pay and still be “stable”. 150 dollar quarts of oil or not. No shell game can make up for the multi-millions you are demanding.


This is about vengeance. Plain and simple.


.




.

 

[x402]

Semperfido-


Diesel-


It is becoming more and more obvious that there was NEVER any intent to negotiate a contract. Like I said you make your offer (read demand) and put a gun to the companies head with the threat of strike.

“STMFD”

That wouldn't be SHUT THE MOTHER *UCKER DOWN would it? I would guess those words are straight form the SU leadership huh? I see the intent to “negotiate” from its members.

I cant see ANY company willing or able to double a workforce of over 2000+ pay and still be “stable”. 150 dollar quarts of oil or not. No shell game can make up for the multi-millions you are demanding.


This is about vengeance. Plain and simple.

God help the people trusting you to send them safely to their next destination. Your myopic view of what the company is spewing can't help but slant what you do at work. The shell game is clear, who gets hurt, the owner. They are being hurt now, without any work action. By the pathetic excuse for management you keep touting as your savior.
Netjets has failed to manage the owners money in their best interest. They make excuses and blame everyone, you, me and our owners.

 

[Hogprint]

Lets clear a couple of things up I R DXR,

SU hasn't encouraged the use of the term STMFD as far as I know. What they have done is methodically prepared us for that eventuality.

Where are you getting this vengence BS from? SU is/has done in six months what the former MEC (who, with an accommodating company, got us into this mess) should have done 3 1/2 years ago.

I know you said you have read the propoganda from the "Death Star" and the Union. You should be able to read between the lines. I can say that so far this MEC has been a straight shooter. I am going to hold them to that level of expectation.

On another note:

GRIZZ: would it be appropriate to post a reply off the SU board from brother G that explained why we left this counter proposal on the table?

 

[I-R-DXR]

Semperfido-


Diesel-


It is becoming more and more obvious that there was NEVER any intent to negotiate a contract. Like I said you make your offer (read demand) and put a gun to the companies head with the threat of strike.

“STMFD”

That wouldn't be SHUT THE MOTHER *UCKER DOWN would it? I would guess those words are straight form the SU leadership huh? I see the intent to “negotiate” from its members.

I cant see ANY company willing or able to double a workforce of over 2000+ pay and still be “stable”. 150 dollar quarts of oil or not. No shell game can make up for the multi-millions you are demanding.


This is about vengeance. Plain and simple.

God help the people trusting you to send them safely to their next destination. Your myopic view of what the company is spewing can't help but slant what you do at work. The shell game is clear, who gets hurt, the owner. They are being hurt now, without any work action. By the pathetic excuse for management you keep touting as your savior.
Netjets has failed to manage the owners money in their best interest. They make excuses and blame everyone, you, me and our owners.

I don't let this effect my work - I can assume it does not with you either.

But just how would those owners respond when you tell them "Shut the mother *ucker down"

By the pathetic excuse for management you keep touting as your savior.

Funny I don't remember EVER talking on behalf of the company See below. Nor have I taken the companies propaganda to heart.
You tell me who to believe:

We are negotiating with the companies and owners best interest at stake

or

STMFD



Hummmmm

.

 

[I-R-DXR]

I know you said you have read the propoganda from the "Death Star" and the Union. You should be able to read between the lines

Sorry seems to much BS out there to deal with. Thus my post a while back:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=53453

The only person that tried to help explain things was El Chup. Seems all I got was flames / and STMFD postings from others.

.

 

[x402]

Funny I don't remember EVER talking on behalf of the company See below. Nor have I taken the companies propaganda to heart.
You tell me who to believe:

We are negotiating with the companies and owners best interest at stake

Your comments and questions are right out of the Boisture play book, I don't have the time or inclination to go back and copy them all here. You want to be devils advocate for who? You don't get to vote on our contract and we believe that our cause is just and worthwhile. We back our negotiators and we will do what is necessary to suceed in this battle with management. When you guys upstairs grow a pair you'll stand up, too. Until then, f off.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Funny I don't remember EVER talking on behalf of the company See below. Nor have I taken the companies propaganda to heart.
You tell me who to believe:

We are negotiating with the companies and owners best interest at stake

Your comments and questions are right out of the Boisture play book, I don't have the time or inclination to go back and copy them all here. You want to be devils advocate for who? You don't get to vote on our contract and we believe that our cause is just and worthwhile. We back our negotiators and we will do what is necessary to suceed in this battle with management. When you guys upstairs grow a pair you'll stand up, too. Until then, f off.

Funny never met the man. How about im the advocate for all those "casino" workers that will be out of a job if you STMFD.

Why would I need to grow a pair and stand up? Remember I took a job I could be happy with.

.

 

[ce750drvr]

Ya know what DXR, I very rarely post on here, but I'm tired of your sh!t!!
You are wrong in this being "vengence" for us. You are right though, if they can't pay us "an average" wage (we are not asking to be the highest paid, just what is average) then most of us do not want to work here. Therefore, yeah, STMFD!!

We care what happens here, WHILE WE ARE EMPLOYEES. If we are no longer employees because the company is too greedy to recognize us, then why would we care? Because we are worried about your job? Give me a break. We are so fed up with this crap because Mr. Santulli himself told us that if we give him time, he will take care of us. Well his time is up. We have grown this company on OUR backs, not yours. Part of my flying education was how to file flight plans, did it before, can do it again. People shouldn't get worked up over your opinions. Our job is the only job here that makes this company go. Don't take this the wrong way...we appreciate what you do and you guys do a fine job. But, without pilots, NOBODY would have a job. We know how to file flight plans, do a weight and balance, get our own food, figure out our own weather, etc., etc.

You have your job because of pilots. We make half what we should be making. Also, don't whine to us that we knew what we would be making when we came here. We know that, we also know that RTS gloated that we could have done ALOT better after the last deal was done. We know what we SHOULD be paid and so does he.

Let me ask you a question, Do you think it is at all POSSIBLE that the company might be lying to you about us? Or do you believe that there is no way on Gods green earth that they could EVER tell a lie? Seriously, come on man, you can't be that gullable!!

It's not about toys, it is about a wide range of reasons. I am a divorced (she couldn't handle me being gone) father of three with an enormous child support bill. I live in a one bedroom apt on a sh!tty side of town because that is all that I can afford. College for the kids is right around the corner, I guess my kids will have to join the military and become a moving target in Iraq just so we can afford to send them to school. Think again ass clown, if the dispatchers, meteorologist, schedulers, and whoever else upstairs were to become union and you wanted to fight for a pay raise, we wouldn't dog you, we would support you.

If you want to learn something and ask questions to be informed, then fine, we can understand that and are more than happy to help you. But DO NOT come here and stir up crap because you don't like what you hear. Try to look at it from our point of view, to which you HAVE NOT, even though you claim too.

You are buying off on the company spin, it is unfortunate....Please, if you have an answer to the question above, I would like to hear it...but ask yourself this:

From BRK annual report (you can find it on the internet) the company (NJA), in 2003, made a pretax profit of 72 million but said that we made only a very small profit because of the losses in Europe. In 2004, they made a pretax profit of 191 million (almost trippled), but again only made a small profit because of the losses in Europe. Both years they claim that next year the indicators were pointing to NJE turning the corner and making money. So, do you mean to tell me that we almost trippled our money and Europe TRIPPLED ITS LOSSES!?!?!?!?!?!

I don't think so, and neither should you. We WILL fight for what is average, nothing more, nothing less. But we will fight and stop this merry-go-round if we have too. So, with all do respect, shut up......please.

 

[I-R-DXR]

First off Sir

I have no problem with you making a fair wage. I NEVER HAVE. I have only become an A$$ when pilots in OUR company have threatened my job - ergo my family

I came here to find some sort of the truth. It become very apparent that if you even question the SU you get flamed here.

And no we have grown this company on ALL of our backs. Pay is not everything one gives up.

Your comment about the BRK reports does beg the question: why did the union not suggest its own auditor?

Anywho thanks for the rare post Sir.

.

 

[I-R-DXR]

LOL

wow don't I feel like a pilgrim in an unholy land


Sorry seems I brought god back into this discussion


.

 

[Diesel]

Well i was going to type a reply but ce750drvr hit the nail on the head.

I don't need to explain to all the pilots on this board how much we do day in and day out. I believe that my level of customer service has gone up higher than it ever was before. My goal? To make sure the owners are on our side. To make sure they value the level of service we provide them.

Think about crewfood for a minute. They don't buy us crewfood because they are nice and want us happy. they buy us crewfood because it keeps us moving, keeps us on in the seat. We aren't taking an hour lunch down at applebees. They know the tradeoff for catering is a jet that isn't making money.

 

[Grizz]

GRIZZ: would it be appropriate to post a reply off the SU board from brother G that explained why we left this counter proposal on the table?

Contact him directly via our board to see if he has no problems with you posting it over here. If he doesn't, we won't have a problem with it either.

 

[Grizz]

Your comment about the BRK reports does beg the question: why did the union not suggest its own auditor?

2 reasons that I can think of right away:

1) NetJets wants to selectively pick and choose what books are looked at. Regardless of who audits the books with the company selecting what we get to see it's hard to get an accurate picture of where all the money is going to.

2) Business decisions made by NetJets management control both the short term and long term profit and loss of the company. The company has made it very clear that they have been willing to sacrafice short term profits to gain market share. We're unwilling to conitune financing that effort with wages that are well below what NBAA averages are. In other words - if the business model is so badly laid out that NetJets can't make a profit and pay it's employees a fair wage, most of us want to know that right now before we waste anymore time at this company.

 

[Live4flyng]

I came here to find some sort of the truth. It become very apparent that if you even question the SU you get flamed here.

If you really want truthful answers, post your questions and they will be answered with facts.

 

[ce750drvr]

I have to appologize about the harshness of my post. The tension builds after a while.

We did ask for an auditor from our side to look at "certain" books but were denied by the company. We are suppose to just believe what they tell us.

And you are right about "our backs", I will concede that. We are not trying to "mess" with anybodys' family. I agree you are also way underpaid. The problem is, we are union and can fight for wages and work rules. We have the tools and the clout to do that. You are non-union and have to engage in "negotiations" solo, therefore, you and your counterparts, can not apply pressure to get what you deserve because of the "individual" negotiations. If you ask for what you are worth, the company would tell you to get lost because there is no ramification for doing so. We are in a unique postion when in a union, and the reason we are union is for the protections we are afforded.

Though it may be unpopular, disliking SU is not against the law. You may feel as you please. However, they are the first group here that truley has this pilot groups best interest at heart. You may not like them, but we sure do. They are an extension of us. If you don't like them, in essence, you don't like us. WE ARE THE UNION.

Again, I ask you to answer the question, do you believe the company would never lie to you?

Respectfully

 

[x402]

Your comment about the BRK reports does beg the question: why did the union not suggest its own auditor?

They will only let us look at the numbers they want. Not everything we want to see. So who's hiding information and dragging their feet. WE WANT THIS DONE, can we be any clearer about this. Netjets makes money EVERY DAY on the old contract. Wake up.

 

[I-R-DXR]

You know what - I must say thanks.

Thanks for the honest answer with no flames. It DOES mean a lot.

Let me say again I have never been against a fair wage. Im just pro my job.

Again, I ask you to answer the question, do you believe the company could never lie to you?

Companies lie all the time - you bet.

Let me be honest here folks. Im not under paid. Since the mass influx in DXR schools (also the short course) and 9/11 finding a good DXR job is hard to find.

Average pay for me is around 11.00 an hour. Thats WITH a union.

I just request you lay off the STMFD postings. Thankyou

.

 

[PseudoName]

Hey, NJA guys....Since the majority of corporate aviation knows you will NOT get close to what you are DEMANDING, here is some info you will find helpful in the coming months.

=======================

www.truck-driver.net

JOB SECURITY-OTR Truck Drivers
The outlook for the trucking industry is excellent. There is a shortage of drivers in general and over-the-road drivers particularly. With a good CDL Class A, job security in the future is virtually assured. Individual trucking companies that bankrupt stem from bad management, not lack of business.

TYPES OF TRUCKING

There are three types of trucking:

(1) Local: involves mostly loading and unloading at local businesses. Pay is usually hourly and drivers are home every night. Long days are typical (8-10 hours). An example of a driver is a tanker service that deliver gasoline.

Local drivers may only need a Class B CDL to drive such things as UPS delivery trucks, break trucks or dump trucks.

(2) Over-the-Road <OTR>: delivering freight in all or part of the 48 states and Canada. Pay is usually by the mile, with 2,500 miles per week a reasonable expectation. Drivers are limited driving/working 70 hours in 8 days, with a maximum 10 hour work session before an 8 hour break. More money is made when less loading/unloading is required (no touch freight), freight is point-to- point rather than multiple stop and traffic lanes avoid congested areas like New York City. Drivers are away from home an average of 1-4 weeks.

Additional terms in OTR trucking a regional (a limited running area like the southeastern states), dedicated (same run or runs day after day) and irregular route (new delivery routes each time). Examples are J.B. Hunt and USA Truck.

(3) Short Haul: companies that haul LTL (less than truckload) freight terminal to terminal (hub to hub). Pay may be mileage based or hourly. Time away from home is usually one or two nights at a time. Some of the best pay and benefits are found in this type of trucking but hiring is very selective and some OTR experience is normally needed. Short haul companies include UPS (doubles on the highway) and Roadway.

HOME TIME

No one should enter the trucking industry without being prepared to sacrifice some home time. Even local drivers may put in over 10 hours a day.

The OTR industry will usually give a driver one full day off for every week (7 days) away from home. This makes trucking a lifestyle, not just a career change.

Most good paying local and short haul companies like at least a year's experience OTR. This demonstrates reliability and skill of prospective drivers. The OTR industry will give an 'out-of-school- new driver a training period with an experienced Driver Trainer to get them started right (period of 4 weeks or more)...local and short haul usually don't have this extra training.

While solo driving companies (one driver in the truck verses a team operation) often allow a rider in the truck, smaller children are normally not allowed to ride.

A rule of thumb is this: if you and your family cannot invest one year of your life with an OTR company, trucking may not be for you.

QUALIFICATIONS

Different companies will have varying policies in all of these areas, but here are some general qualifications:

AGE: to drive out of state, minimum age is 21 years old.

CDL CLASS A: must have this with some endorsements (hazardous materials, doubles or tanker for example) and training from an recognized trucking school.

D.O.T. PHYSICAL: must pass a standard department of transportation physical and a drug screen (illegal drug use is an immediate disqualification). A history of heart trouble, mental illness or back injury often will be additional drawbacks to hiring.

DRIVING RECORD: a good driving record with no more than three moving violations (speeding, running stop sign, etc.) and/or accidents in the last three years is a median qualification, but there is great latitude in this area from company to company (some stricter, some more lenient). A DUI/DWI on the driving record in the past 5 years is normally a disqualification...many companies require 10 years. Reckless driving, leaving the scene of an accident and fleeing a police officer are also strong negatives.

CRIMINAL RECORD: companies crossing the border into Canada may not send a driver with a felony conviction on those runs: Canada will arrest the driver and seize the truck. A Canadian waiver or Ministers Permit must be obtained to legally cross the border.

Drug or theft related crimes are usually immediate disqualifications. Felony convictions in general must normally be at least 10 years old, but many OTR companies will not hire anyone with a felony record at any time.

WORK HISTORY: because of high driver turn-over, particularly in the OTR industry, a stable work history is needed. Long periods at one job and military service are strongly desired by major companies. 'Job hopping' without a good (attached to the application) explanation is usually a disqualification. Trucking companies must call and verify former employers at least 3 years back, so accurate information is vital.

 

[ce750drvr]

DXR,

Ya have to understand..well, let me ask you this.

Have you ever been so ticked off that you can't see straight? I mean you are physically sick to your stomach and shaking because you could just knock the living sh!t out of something because you were that mad?

We are at that point. Time and time again we have been told: "don't worry, the money is there", "you give me this, I will give you that (and it doesn't happen)", "you could have done better", "we want this done too", "we are not making money", blah, blah, blah.

STMD is how mad we are. We have been kicked in the sack so many times we are not going to take it anymore. You don't have to agree with it, but you have to understand it. It is a reality. STMD is an acronym for strike. You fear it, the company fears it, the owners fear it, hell, we fear too. We also have families, mortgages, and car notes. But RTS has made it abundantly clear that he is not going to "give" us anything except for what we take. So we have decided to stand up and take what we feel is FAIR. After all, that is what should be done in life. You can't lay idley by and take what life throws, you try and do what is right by you, take what you can and if you can't, you leave it alone and move to something else. That is what we are doing, taking what we can, if we can't, we will move on.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not being egotistical or putting your job down, but the reality of the situation is, our job is not the most important, but it is the most vital to operations. This company would not move without us. If we left, the company would try to operate with vedors (like trying to stop a bleeding major artery with a band-aid) but it would fail. If dispatchers walked, we would have to file ourselves, but the company would still function. Same goes for scheduling, catering, yada, yada, yada. Please, Im not putting you or your job down, it is just that this is our position. We fix the puzzle palace mistakes day in and day out and the owners never know the difference.
However, you guys cant fix ours. It is hard to pull bits and pieces of people from a smoking hole in the ground and put them back together.

You want career people here DXR. You DO NOT want this to be a revolving door for pilots. Experience in the cockpit is insurance for your job more than anything. If we rotate pilots every few years and some newbie lawn darts one in ASE, nobody will have a job. Please be more understanding and supportive of our cause. We want this to be a career, that is why we are asking for AVERAGE pay, we want to stay. We will not, however, if they can't pay us. That is why the STMD is in our vocabulary. If we can't live comfortably with what they pay us, again, why would we stay, thus, why would we care if it stays in business??

 

[Majik]

Hey, NJA guys....Since the majority of corporate aviation knows you will NOT get close to what you are DEMANDING, here is some info you will find helpful in the coming months.

And I bet your mutha is proud of you! What an outstanding woman she must be to have raised a son like you. You're probably a chip off the ol' block. Wish her a happy Mutha's Day from all the NJA pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

The only books that matter--as they tell the WHOLE truth, giving the ENTIRE picture--are the NJ Inc books, which they refuse to open. Instead they hold out the NJA books which have benefited from having the profits moved into NJ Inc. The present MEC/negotiating team are smarter than the last losers (by 90%) we had as "representatives". To put it plainly, our side is no longer falling for any of their tricks.

In a workforce of 2000+ faced with foot dragging (the company clearly gains from stalling-- NOT the pilots WHO haven't had a pay raise in 6 yrs), punitive scheduling, contract violations and insulting offers at the table, it is not terribly surprising that ON THEIR OWN TIME a small number of pilots will show signs of burnout. (STFD is certainly not indicative of the posts of the group.) That said, the NJ pilots continue to receive the highest ratings from the owners, who are VERY satisfied with the professional service the flight crews provide them. Knowing that low morale is a direct byproduct of labor unrest, it is actually surprising that we haven't seen more angry posts. I think that it is because UNION morale is as high as company morale is low.

DXR, I understand that it offends you to see STFD in posts that refer to the place you work. Please also understand that your posts have been offensive as well: unfounded accusations of venegence (again a couple posters AREN'T the whole union); comments of "holding a gun to the company's head" for LEGAL job actions which can ONLY be taken if released by the mediator who feels NOTHING else has worked; and comments that distort the pilots' position--doubling govt assistance/chump change wages will NOT break the NJ bank and cause the company to fold.

I believe that if the pilots were as you are making them out to be, they wouldn't even have BOTHERED to reply to your posts. As has been pointed out, the other employees have no bearing on the outcome; therefore, the fact that pilots are discussing the issues with you is a sign of more respect and concern for fellow workers than you are giving them credit for.

 

[PseudoName]

I was looking at your informational handout posted on the ASAP web site. Boy, you guys sure have brainwashed yourselves. I especially like the Captain salary graph, comparing a NJA Captain salary to the ProPilot avg salary. I got out my 2004 ProPilot survey and compared the actual numbers to what you printed on your handouts.....I didn't think you would stoop to this level.

If you care so much about your customers as your billboards and handouts say you do, then why do you LIE to them when comparing NJA actual salaries to ProPilot averages? Your Union informational handout shows that according to the ProPilot survey, a Captain makes over 100K avg in the Falcon, X, Hawker, C-XL.

NOT TRUE!!!!! You better hope Warren and his crew doesn't come back with the actual numbers to your owners.......the ones you are hoping will back you up in the coming months!

Don't believe me?? Get out an old ProPilot and see for yourself. You are deceiving your owners.

This action shows that your pilot group is NO BETTER than NJA management!

 

[Mach92]

I was looking at your informational handout posted on the ASAP web site. Boy, you guys sure have brainwashed yourselves. I especially like the Captain salary graph, comparing a NJA Captain salary to the ProPilot avg salary. I got out my 2004 ProPilot survey and compared the actual numbers to what you printed on your handouts.....I didn't think you would stoop to this level.

If you care so much about your customers as your billboards and handouts say you do, then why do you LIE to them when comparing NJA actual salaries to ProPilot averages? Your Union informational handout shows that according to the ProPilot survey, a Captain makes over 100K avg in the Falcon, X, Hawker, C-XL.

NOT TRUE!!!!! You better hope Warren and his crew doesn't come back with the actual numbers to your owners.......the ones you are hoping will back you up in the coming months!

Don't believe me?? Get out an old ProPilot and see for yourself. You are deceiving your owners.

This action shows that your pilot group is NO BETTER than NJA management!

Ya missed the part that says 18% of our pilots are on food stamps. I bet your NOT!

 

[netjetwife]

Quoting from the Pro Pilot June 2004 issue which was used for the graph

US Salary Study page 59 Corporate Jet Captain (right hand column)


Citation X.......................123,000

Falcon 2000 ...................120,000

Hawker800XP/1000...........112,000

Citation Excel....................94,000


There are others, both on the handout and in Pro Pilot, but these are the 4 mentioned in PN's post. Do note that on the graph, the XL bar is just under the 100K line. Nor is there any mention of AVERAGE salaries. PseudoName has misread the graph which was based on numbers from the 3rd column NOT the first. It helps to get your facts right BEFORE accusing others of lying. The graph is completely factual--it was done "by the book"--literally!

The pilot who made the graph would undoubtedly agree with one thing PN said in his post--
"Don't believe me?? Get out an old ProPilot and see for yourself."