Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[PseudoName]

ONCE AGAIN READ WHAT THE COMPANY WANTED US TO DO TO ACCEPT 106K at 5years.

No 401k
No health benefits
6/4 schedule
less vacation
the list continues. Yeah the company is really serious. This is worst than the TA.

The worst TA?? 106K at 5 years to fly a Hawker/Citation? There are hundreds of pilots flying the same jets you fly, on call 365/7, who would love an offer like that.

No 401K?? Most Part 135 management companies don't offer this either.

No health?? go to www.kp.org, full health for an entire family $650.00 month. I opted for this route because my COMPANY PROVIDED health was too expensive!

6/4 Schedule?? This equates to 18.25 days/month worked. The industry average is 17.4! The only difference between your proposed schedule with the rest of the Part 135 industry, you have 146 scheduled days per year where you don't have to be on call, ready for work in 1 hour.

Less Vacation? Ummm, didn't you just receive 146 days off in the previous year.....what do you need vacation for?

The list continues? Like what....you can't receive a crew meal and collect perdiem at the same time?


This TA is leaps and bounds better than most Part 135 jobs you will be begging to have once you go on strike and lose your jobs!!!

 

[Live4flyng]

I want you guys to get a contract you can live with and one the company can too. I don't want new hires, I want to support the great group I have.

Your dribble is getting old dude. If the company refuses to make a serious offer, see "EXHIBIT A", CHOICE #2. Then you can have contempt for those new hires and preach your "exhibit A" to them.

 

[Lrjet55]

ONCE AGAIN READ WHAT THE COMPANY WANTED US TO DO TO ACCEPT 106K at 5years.

No 401k
No health benefits
6/4 schedule
less vacation
the list continues. Yeah the company is really serious. This is worst than the TA.

Deisel, good post.

Its clear a good portion of those working at bridgeway side solely with management and I suppose we cannot fault them. Since Boisture is adept at spin and blatant lies and those upstairs gain all their information from him only then what can we expect.

I especially like the part in his crew ops lies that the unions original salary proposal would bankrupt the company. In todays society people, though somewhat educated, lack the ability to think for themselves. They take information at face value and spew the remnants as if were gospel. I am not suprised at the responses from bridgeway employees.
Since they see us as maybe not an enemy but certainly not an ally they will tend to believe a figure they hope is there for their benefit.
Boisture wants bridgeway employees to believe that adding our current benefits package to the 105K salary will bankrupt the company. If you beleive adding an additional 10-15K per pilot for benefits will bankrupt NJA then I applaud you for an incredible sense of ingnorance.
I suppose the most comical aspect to all of boistures retorts is the complete one sided spin to each statement. My favorite is the critisism of our MEC chairman for walking out of the room. People here this and automaticaly assume its the unions fault. There is of course no mention of the past 3 1/2 years where the company, during negotiations, would request a 1 hours caucus to discuss an issue presented by the union and then return 4 hours later. There is no mention of said request being granted and then not returning for the rest of the day leaving the union negotiators sitting around all after noon. There is no mention of the company showing up late at consecutive meetings and were arent talking about 15 to 20 minutes but rather several hours. Of course none of this is mentioned. All that is mentioned is the union MEC chairman walked out of a meeting. How dare he!

If any of you bridgeway employees want to quote boisture and place that information here feel free to do so but please take the time to find out the facts. PM me and I will tell you the truth free of interpretation.

I do not know any of you and I probably never will. I choose to be a number and thats it. It makes no difference to me whether you like the pilot group or not. Your opinions of the group do very little to hinder or advance our cause, however, having all the facts is key. I suppose the 6s's the union has put out can be a bit ambiguous. Boistures rants can be the same but for gods sake don't spout his information as gospel.

Boisture will be with us for a very short period of time. Boisture is a manager only. His job is to cut cost and maximize profits. His strategies will work anywhere customer service is not a priority. Gulfstream, for example, builds airplanes. We do not. His strategies will never work here and hense the predicament we find ourselves in.

Let me get back on track here. Boisture is an idiot, check, we know that. Bridgeway employees seem to follow him blindly, check, we know that. The pilot group couldn't give a rats a$$ what Bridgeway thinks of us, check, we know that.
The only reason I have spent minutes of my life on this topic that I can never get back is because I find it intollerable to watch people quote such misguided information.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ace, that is not at all what I'd say. I stated my case, I thought, when I said that the thought of being called a scab is sickening. One only has to read this board to see the emotions and stress generated by just TALKING about the possibility, much less, actually being faced with the reality of the situation. I truly DO believe that it would be very upsetting and very much a distraction to those involved.

Off track. You suggested we (non fractionals) should call in sick when we're not sick. I don't play those games, period. Would your husband have lied to his CO? Is this the way he conducts himself? Or do all rules and ethics hit the floor when you are union. Ask him. You should know. His kids should know if he is a liar. That to me is WAY worse than some union thinking he's a scab.

As for emotions, let me say this again: WHO CARES. Put me on ANY list you want. You union folks have a HUGE sense of self importance and power. WE DON'T CARE. We (I'll) never be in a place where it would matter. Remember, payback's a b$tch. Your company has put alot of pilots out of jobs, pilots that have families to support too. I've never seen a NetJets pilot say "sure I'll work for you, but not if someone is on the street because I'm flying his boss now, I'll call in sick for that flight." Never ask someone to do something you wouldn't.

This is about you, your husband, and lying.

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

lets get this back on track.

OUR FIGHT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE 135 GUYS. They are working for some other guy and have no protection. I'm not going to ask my buddies to get in deep shizzle with their boss.

OUR FIGHT IS OUR FIGHT. If you want to support us fine that's great but don't lose your jobs over it.

Enough allready. ARRRGH

Diesel,

I support people like you. People who just want to bring this to an end and get a fair contract. I think unions for a work group your size are a must.

BTW, I do have protection, if I didn't I'd have waaaaay too many kids.

Ace

 

[FracCapt]

I put the words "struck work" in quotation marks to let you know it is something I've been told. I've also heard that the charter pilots DO know when they're flying a NJ job. The idea of calling in sick came from my husband. I can see how the idea of winding up a scab would be a sickening thought. He would never cross a line and there are, doubtless, many other pilots out there who would refuse to as well. I am not trying to perpetuate anything. I'm merely asking pilots to lend their support to a worthy cause, and expressing an opinion that it wouldn't be a risk worth taking, IMHO.

You DON'T seem to understand....flying charter trips for YOUR OWN COMPANY(not NJA) is NOT crossing the picket line! Flying NJA aircraft WOULD be crossing the line.

By "asking pilots to lend their support to a worthy cause" you're asking them to risk their jobs and the well being of their family. Just because it's a worthy cause to you doesn't mean jack sh!t to them! Get a clue, lady. You seem to think that EVERYBODY in the ENTIRE aviation industry should back the NJA pilots, because you think it will be great for everybody. Let me make this clear....this fight is the problem of the NJA pilots, nobody else.

Many of us wish the NJA pilots the best with this situation, but I am not going to risk my job in any way to back them up. I will NOT have anything to do with NJA aircraft(nor NJA trips, just based on who I work for). In case you haven't noticed, several NJA pilots have made it clear that the official word is that 135 pilots flying chartered trips will NOT be considered, in any way, scabs. Take your rhetoric and go away.

 

[netjetwife]

Your lack of interest, Ace, is keeping you from seeing my point. Just because YOU "don't care" doesn't mean that others will be as nonchalant when faced with having to make that choice. I am suggesting that it is unsafe to fly if your mind isn't on the job because of the stress of the situation. One doesn't have to only be physically sick to be DNIF. (Although, there are many times that stress causes physical illness). Those who do CARE are already worried. To admit that you're "stressed out" is not lying. Recognizing that your mind isn't on the job is the safe and honest thing to do. Naturally, those who don't care would not be disturbed by the situation and SHOULD NOT ask to be excused from flying.

 

[Lrjet55]

Here is my take on flying trips for NJA and flying NJA airplanes during a strike.

Don't fly NJA trips. Why? Because you will hate it. They will d!ck you around, keep you out longer than you wanted, make you sit around the FBO all day until there is a one way back in the direction of your home base.
Are you a scab, of course not. We wish we could ask you to not fly our trips but we cannot protect you. If you choose not to do so and I think many will then we thank you for your support.

If anyone does fly a QS aircraft then you will be considered a SCAB and placed on the list accordingly. We are not a huge company and we are certainly not a career destination but a SCAB in most peoples eyes is a SCAB no matter what. The list is permanent.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Your lack of interest, Ace, is keeping you from seeing my point. Just because YOU "don't care" doesn't mean that others will be as nonchalant when faced with having to make that choice. I am suggesting that it is unsafe to fly if your mind isn't on the job because of the stress of the situation. One doesn't have to only be physically sick to be DNIF. (Although, there are many times that stress causes physical illness). Those who do CARE are already worried. To admit that you're "stressed out" is not lying. Recognizing that your mind isn't on the job is the safe and honest thing to do. Naturally, those who don't care would not be disturbed by the situation and SHOULD NOT ask to be excused from flying.

Nice try! This is why you never made Lawyer. You said we should lie, plain and simple. Don't try to get out of it now.

If safety is your issue, then ALL of you guys shouldn't be flying. You all seem WAY more stressed then us non-frac guys. Get a clue, we're a smarter group than you think. That was by far your stupidest post yet. Stressed because of 'scab' threat, ha, you must think pilots are a pretty mentally unstable group. Trust me, we have to deal with MUCH more stressful stuff than that on a daily basis. Any 135 pilot who was too stressed to fly because of YOUR strike, shouldn't be flying at all.

Ace

BTW, happy mother's day. We all have 'em, we all love 'em.

 

[casino wife]

NJW

Just a thought, maybe if a strike occurs you could go to the local college and teach a course called "Art of Backpedaling 101." Remind your students to bring a shovel.

 

[netjetwife]

FracCapt, it isn't "rhetoric" that motivates my posts, but a genuine concern for those caught in a "sticky" situation. Yes, I also read those posts made by a few of the NJ pilots, but saw no mention of it being an official union position. I took it as their own personal opinion and have heard opinions to the contrary also expressed by the pilots. I think my confusion and concern for other pilots/families is understandable. That the mere mention of the possibility elicits such emotional responses, underscores my point that it is, indeed, a stressful situation for all involved. It was my hope that an open-minded discussion might yield ideas of how to handle the problem should it arise.

No, I don't expect "EVERYBODY in the ENTIRE aviation industry" to be interested. I did click on the FRACTIONAL section of the board

 

[h25b]

Your lack of interest, Ace, is keeping you from seeing my point. Just because YOU "don't care" doesn't mean that others will be as nonchalant when faced with having to make that choice. I am suggesting that it is unsafe to fly if your mind isn't on the job because of the stress of the situation. One doesn't have to only be physically sick to be DNIF. (Although, there are many times that stress causes physical illness). Those who do CARE are already worried. To admit that you're "stressed out" is not lying. Recognizing that your mind isn't on the job is the safe and honest thing to do. Naturally, those who don't care would not be disturbed by the situation and SHOULD NOT ask to be excused from flying.

Does your husband realize how ridiculous your posts are??? "Stressed out," are you serious ? The rest of the aviation community isn't going to lose any sleep over a NetJet's strike or even flying a Part 135 sell-off trip either. You're nuts and I can't believe your husband even has you involved. If my wife was this wrapped around the axle about my job I'd be ashamed. This is obviously too much for your family to handle. I've been at a job that was so miserable it affected my family life and guess what, I LEFT IT AND MOVED ON !!! Life's too short. I really mean this, no joke ... This is a really sick situation for you and your family should move on.

This is a d(^m labor dispute, not some noble epic struggle between the forces of good and evil that will be documented in any history book...

I take it as my responsibilty to make sure my wife and family don't have to worry about these things. I know looking back that my dad had some really bad times professionally, but he did something about it and we never knew anything of it until long after it was over. This mam is the true definition of class, dealing with your own problems and never taking any credit for good deeds done.

I think I've moved beyond thinking of you as ignorant and just feel sorry for you...

 

[pilotyip]

A lot of the Japanese pilots who attacked Pearl Harbor also felt they were in control and would really show the US who was in charge. That is the fog of war, and the fog of this strike will prove to be just as confusing. It is not about what you deserve as much as your feel you deserve it. It is about return on investment for the shareholders. If something can be reached that protects the shareholders then it could be a done deal. If not then the most profitable solution for the shareholders might be selling off assets. As stated before this could be very interesting. If enough pilots voted with their feet, the company might get the picture.

 

[semperfido]

....the next 5 weeks are going to go by painfully slow

 

[Majik]

and when 5 weeks pass, we may find that we are in a recess, not a release.

Plans are being made for that contingency also. The key is to not set an unrealistic timeline in your mind. It is what it is and we'll deal with each day as it comes.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

FracCapt, it isn't "rhetoric" that motivates my posts, but a genuine concern for those caught in a "sticky" situation. Yes, I also read those posts made by a few of the NJ pilots, but saw no mention of it being an official union position. I took it as their own personal opinion and have heard opinions to the contrary also expressed by the pilots. I think my confusion and concern for other pilots/families is understandable. That the mere mention of the possibility elicits such emotional responses, underscores my point that it is, indeed, a stressful situation for all involved. It was my hope that an open-minded discussion might yield ideas of how to handle the problem should it arise.

No, I don't expect "EVERYBODY in the ENTIRE aviation industry" to be interested. I did click on the FRACTIONAL section of the board

I guess you're not ever going to answer my questions to you and your husband. Specifically, would he lie to further his or someone else's cause. Simple question.

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Contract or bust!

....the next 5 weeks are going to go by painfully slow

It already is. Lots of 100K plus jobs out here in TEB. I work less than 15 days per month. I also hear there are several openings in BOS, VNY and BUR.

These 'good' 135 and 91 jobs are NOT that rare. They are not unstable and you are NOT on call 24/7.

Just sayin', you do have alternatives, but you already know that. If you plan to stick it out, I suggest that you be willing to stay even if you don't get your 'new deal'.

Ace

 

[netjetwife]

No, Ace, it's not a simple question. My husband made a passing comment. Was it wishful thinking? Was it based on the belief that some jobs allow workers to use "sick" days for personal reasons, rather than be penalized for their good health? I don't know. I didn't think at the time that I needed to pin him down on it. My viewpoint of the situation as stressful is my own, based on what I've read. I can recognize that many of the pilots DO hold deep beliefs about the obligation of not crossing the line.

Those who know us have no reason to doubt our integrity. This, like many other aspects of the NJ contract dispute, is a "wait and see" situation. Naturally, it is one that we hope to avoid.

 

[FAcFriend]

In this country the people that make the most money are those that generally make jobs for other people -

Not the people who work for them.

 

[Lrjet55]

It already is. Lots of 100K plus jobs out here in TEB. I work less than 15 days per month. I also hear there are several openings in BOS, VNY and BUR.

These 'good' 135 and 91 jobs are NOT that rare. They are not unstable and you are NOT on call 24/7.

Just sayin', you do have alternatives, but you already know that. If you plan to stick it out, I suggest that you be willing to stay even if you don't get your 'new deal'.

Ace

Very true.

I know for many, including myself, we are holding out hopes of a retro check and then we will leave. Regardless of the final contract there will be many, many pilots leaving. A bad contract will simply cause a mass exodus. Job or no job many will simply quit.

If not then the most profitable solution for the shareholders might be selling off assets.

If NJA refuses to make the company a career job then I hope you comment does come to fruition. We have enough lousy companies out there and NetJets in the long run will cause substantial damage to corporate aviation. Preventing NetJets from ruining corporate aviation will certainly be a cause many will get behind.