Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[Cpt Splash]

Then why carry this out in a public forum? If posts by non NJ pilots and their wives are so meaningless....why not take it to the ASAP board?

Because you're trying to rally support for your cause. That's why. Some people, like NJW, are not helping your cause.

Because the short term goals of the NJ pilots are for their pay and QOL. The long term goal is have the whole industry(fractional) to be under a union, preferably their union. This info is coming from the horses mouth. If the pilots win, I agree that this is going to be good for the entire industry, because nothing galvinizes people more then an underdog winning. To say that non-NJ pilots opinions are meaningless, well, thats just stupid.

 

[netjetwife]

Naturally, you are entitled to your own opinion, FracCapt. However, looking at my PMs from this and the ASAP board, shows that you are definitely in the minority when it comes to your judgment of me.

There are other NJ Wives out there that are following the labor dispute closely. Some of them even read this board, but do not post here because they don't care to be attacked for their views.

 

[h25b]

However, looking at my PMs from this and the ASAP board, shows that you are definitely in the minority when it comes to your judgment of me.

" I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and doggone it, people like me...." -Stuart Smalley (a.k.a netjetwife)

Stuart Smalley (a.k.a. netjetwife) is a caring nurturer, a member of several twelve-step programs, but NOT a licensed therapist.

 

[Duderino]

How are you guys gonna feel towards the Charter Pilots that are having to fly while y'all are striking. I am not looking forward to the increased work load. Hope you guys get what you ask for.

duder

 

[netjetwife]

Please don't "shoot the messenger!"

The timing of your question is good, as far as getting the latest information to come from the leadership of the NJ pilots. Just today, a clarification was made to settle the issue of mixed messages coming from the pilot group. The problem is that the discussion...probably in response to a question like yours....took on momentum before the IBT had given Local 1108 an official policy position. The first posts (from a few weeks ago?) on the subject were the right answer. As hard as it is to hear ( it isn't easy to post, either), if charter pilots fly NJ owners/px in a trip ARRANGED BY NJA then they are considered to be flying struck work, and will be viewed as Scabs. This will apply to ANY pilot flying a NJ transaction during the strike. The ONLY EXCEPTION is for those cases in which the OWNER has made personal/separate arrangements not involving NJA.

I don't know of any NJ pilot that WANTS a strike. Being WILLING, to stand up to the company's intimidation, is another matter. It is seen as a necessary evil in winning fair wages--one that it is widely hoped would be very short IF it were to happen. Duderino, could you explain the difficult situation--"between a rock and a hard place"--that you will be in if your employer chooses to take the extra work? Perhaps discuss it with the Chief Pilot?

There are risks for ALL of the pilots involved. However, the current pay scale for many pilots is so bad/unfair as to make the risk of striking and/or supporting a strike, a calculated risk that is worth taking. Likewise, securing fair wages for 2000+ pilots will surely change the pay environment for pilots across the industry. Doesn't it also follow, that the best way to ensure the strike is short-lived and successful is for it to receive maximum participation? After all, there IS a reason for the expression "safety in numbers".

Recognizing that these are tough times for ALL involved,
Netjetwife

 

[Fozzy]

I have been wondering how long it would take for that info to make it here. I just did not want to be the one to post it.

And it was just getting quiet.

 

[pilotyip]

wife, does this mean the flights flown by UAL, NWA and DAL that EAL booked on other airlines to move customers back in 1989, where flown by scabs?

 

[h25b]

The timing of your question is good, as far as getting the latest information to come from the leadership of the NJ pilots. Just today, a clarification was made to settle the issue of mixed messages coming from the pilot group. The problem is that the discussion...probably in response to a question like yours....took on momentum before the IBT had given Local 1108 an official policy position. The first posts (from a few weeks ago?) on the subject were the right answer. As hard as it is to hear ( it isn't easy to post, either), if charter pilots fly NJ owners/px in a trip ARRANGED BY NJA then they are considered to be flying struck work, and will be viewed as Scabs. This will apply to ANY pilot flying a NJ transaction during the strike. The ONLY EXCEPTION is for those cases in which the OWNER has made personal/separate arrangements not involving NJA.

I don't know of any NJ pilot that WANTS a strike. Being WILLING, to stand up to the company's intimidation, is another matter. It is seen as a necessary evil in winning fair wages--one that it is widely hoped would be very short IF it were to happen. Duderino, could you explain the difficult situation--"between a rock and a hard place"--that you will be in if your employer chooses to take the extra work? Perhaps discuss it with the Chief Pilot?

There are risks for ALL of the pilots involved. However, the current pay scale for many pilots is so bad/unfair as to make the risk of striking and/or supporting a strike, a calculated risk that is worth taking. Likewise, securing fair wages for 2000+ pilots will surely change the pay environment for pilots across the industry. Doesn't it also follow, that the best way to ensure the strike is short-lived and successful is for it to receive maximum participation? After all, there IS a reason for the expression "safety in numbers".

Recognizing that these are tough times for ALL involved,
Netjetwife

Nice move... This will go over great ... Perhaps the dumbest decision made by any aviation union to date (which speaks volumes!!!) ... Nice going guys . Noone will give a $h*t and pretty sure ALPA won't recognize this either. So congrats, you've just alienated yourselves from most every pilot outside NetJets. Hope you get a good contract because if this is for real this cuts both ways and you can forget about working anwhere else.

I've not seen the "scab-list" threat on here from any credible source. I know most of the NetJets pilots screen names on here. I know ALL screen names of the leadership that gets on here. Not one of them has ever mentioned anything about putting 135 guys on any list. I'm on the weekly leadership calls with the union. It's never been brought up there either. Some nameless, faceless rant on this board doesn't count. You getting your panties in a wad over it was exactly what that poster wanted to happen. Ever think it might have been a company stooge trying to make us look bad? Get over it - it isn't an issue. We don't have any plans to go after 135 guys doing their jobs.

Now what do have to say Grizz???

 

[Guitar Guy]

wife, does this mean the flights flown by UAL, NWA and DAL that EAL booked on other airlines to move customers back in 1989, where flown by scabs?

Lay off the messenger, pilotyip and h25b. Netjetswife didn't decide the policy, she simply posted it here because so many people were discussing this topic. If you are upset by this decision made by the union, take it up with them. Netjetswife did NOT make the decision on what is scabbing or "struck work", she simply posted it here so there wouldn't be any debate over what may or may not be scabbing should the NetJets situation culminate in a strike.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that because there will be a lot of damage both internal and external to NetJets and its pilot workforce.

 

[Fozzy]

I would not speak for ALPA. We are not to far off for them. And that came from a buddy that had quesitons and called the DALALPA MEC today. So don't speak about things you have no idea about.

I think everyone should get a beer and sit back and let things play out a bit. No need to go off the deep end. But I can not see that happening.

Guess it is time for CatPuke and NJAdispatch to join powers and bore us will all their bull$hit.

 

[Grizz]

Nice going guys . Noone will give a $h*t and pretty sure ALPA won't recognize this either.

I think the MEC consulted with ALPA before doing this. Since both the Teamsters and ALPA are both AFL-CIO unions, you might want to rethink that stand.

 

[h25b]

I think the MEC consulted with ALPA before doing this. Since both the Teamsters and ALPA are both AFL-CIO unions, you might want to rethink that stand.

O.K. ... I guess nothing from ANY union would suprise me these days ...

Like I said, hope you get a great contract ...

 

[netjetwife]

The airline example that I hear used to make the case is the one where America West took their planes to Australia (I believe it is) and flew the px of the striking airline there.

Fozzy, I didn't post it with anything other than a true desire to offer information that is badly needed during this difficult time. One cannot make an informed decision without having the most accurate and up-to-date answers to their questions. When you have your ear close to the ground, it seems only right to warn others if you sense a stampede is on the way. Realize that I am NOT saying that I know a strike is on the way. NONE OF US know what the NMB will decide. Just the fact that it IS a possibility, forces those involved to make decisions as to what their response will be. I firmly believe that a heads up to what the results will be for pilots flying struck work, allows THOSE WHO WANT IT the best opportunity of working out a plan of action. THOSE WHO DON'T CARE can feel free to ignore the advanced notice. In other words, hold your fire. I'm just the messenger!

 

[Fozzy]

I hear you. Just giving you a little encouragement for the heat you will still have to take. Though it does make for fun reading while stuck in the hotel.

We need for someone (higher up) in the union to post announcements like these, not just the paraphrased message. That way, in matters that concern people other than the pilots, they will get the straight poop. You know what I am saying?!?

 

[Live4flyng]

O.K. ... I guess nothing from ANY union would suprise me these days ...

Like I said, hope you get a great contract ...

If you really "hope" we get a great contract, then why would you be so upset at this info? Are most of your trips comprised of NJA sell-offs? If so, you need to be concerned with your future. History can teach you a valuable lesson. Ask any former Swift Aviation pilot what happened when NJA finally took delivery of enough Citation X's to cover all of their trips. What do you think will happen to your little charter operation when NJA doesn't need you anymore? Please spare us your empty threats of never getting a job anywhere else.

 

[netjetwife]

I hear you. Just giving you a little encouragement for the heat you will still have to take. Though it does make for fun reading while stuck in the hotel.

We need for someone (higher up) in the union to post announcements like these, not just the paraphrased message. That way, in matters that concern people other than the pilots, they will get the straight poop. You know what I am saying?!?

Thanks for the encouragement, Fozzy! At least I have that going for me.. All kidding aside, it means a lot. As to the relief from the hotel boredom--I'm happy to oblige...lol

I understand what you're saying, but don't hold your breath. The unprofessional tone, often "heard" here, makes that a slim chance. I do think that the clarification was pretty timely, though.

 

[Fozzy]

I am not looking for someone from the MEC to make an announcement. Just for someone in the know to post the info, no questions asked. I don't feel it is my place to go "cut and paste" that info in the public. That is all I am saying.

 

[netjetwife]

Obviously, we're of the same opinion, which is why I didn't cut and paste the info, either. It seems to me that perhaps this issue comes under the SPC heading. Those guys are very busy these days, of course. My husband seemed to feel that our posts are getting the word out, sufficiently. I guess we weren't considering the chance that posts meant to inform those affected would be questioned. I guess it's yet another "wait and see" situation for the NJ folks.

For what it's worth, my husband doesn't think it will happen....sorry. NJW

 

[Diesel]

Woah. I won't consider any Charter pilot flying a NJ trip a scab. They don't work for us they don't have a dog in this fight. I will not put my friends job at jeopardy period. They don't have the choice to pick and choose trips. If they said no i'm not flying that trip they (charter pilots) could get fired. period.

How's that going to help the charter pilot getting fired. Now if a pilot flys a QS tail number during a strike thats a scab.

It's just my opinion.

Edited: from an email i missed from the union. Thanks fozzy

 

[Fozzy]

Diesel,
Check your PM's.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Diesel, I agree. They're just doing their jobs.

The other problem I see is that the whole scab list threat seems pretty empty overall. I've never been to an interview where a scab list was brought out and checked. I've never jumpseated where the Capt has pulled one out and checked (although I know there are a few out there who do). I've never started a trip and had the other guy pull out a list to see if I'm on it (I'm not and never will be, by the way). We have scabs on our (NJA) seniority list. Virtually every airline has scabs on their lists. So what exactly are the disincentives for these guys to go to work and do their jobs?

 

[Fozzy]

I guess this is where I should shut up, but Mr. Miller says press on.

The other problem I see is that the whole scab list threat seems pretty empty overall. I've never been to an interview where a scab list was brought out and checked.
I think that would be unwise. Many lawers would love for this kind of case. If this does happen, it happens behind the scenes.

I've never jumpseated where the Capt has pulled one out and checked (although I know there are a few out there who do).

Do you J.S. a lot with NJA? More details needed. I am sure this is rare. But with a young punk (<40 this is not an usually an issue).

I've never started a trip and had the other guy pull out a list to see if I'm on it (I'm not and never will be, by the way). We have scabs on our (NJA) seniority list.
I know who the scabs are in my fleet. But this is not the issue. IF they are on board (i hate that term) with SU, I am giving them a pass.

Virtually every airline has scabs on their lists. So what exactly are the disincentives for these guys to go to work and do their jobs?

120+K a year. That may do it.

 

[Hogprint]

I'm of like mind with a couple of the above posts. I think we are going down a slippery slope with this charter/scab thing.

Fly a QS tail...the term applies....

Chartered? I don't think we can open that can of worms...how would we ever know in the first place? Who is going to track all that info down day in and out?

I know there is a lot of posturing at this stage of the game, but IMHO we are poking the wrong bear.

 

[netjetwife]

Can the possibility of rising wages across the industry (due to companies having to compete for skilled, experienced workers) be considered having a "dog in the fight"? For that matter, what will happen to wages if the NJ pilots were to settle for a bad/unfair contract? Is there not a chance that the NJ pilots could be responsible for lowering wages? IF there is a direct correlation between NJ pay scales and others in the industry, then is it unreasonable for other pilots to share some of the risk for pulling wages UP?

Just wondering aloud,
NJW

 

[Diesel]

Yes our wages would lift all boats but charter pilots do not afford the same protection we do.

When i flew charter it was either do it or do it. I loved the guy i worked for but we had only a few planes and every trip counted. I'm not about to ask my friends to say, "no way". Is 1108 going to pay them when they get fired.

Nope they aren't. Fly a Qs tail number on strike and you're a scab. Fly for your charter company while we are on strike and you're doing your job. PERIOD.

 

[netjetwife]

Diesel, you forgot to add that you are stating a personal opinion, NOT that expressed by Local 1108. I guess you'll have to get in the habit of putting "IMO" on each post you make on the subject.....

Yes, these are tough times for pilots. Perhaps your friends could just level with their employers? What if it only lasted a day? Maybe their companies could handle that? It'd be pretty sad to risk being put on a list for a day's work. As others point out, NJA isn't likely to care what happens to charter companies when they're services are no longer needed. Could it be that some won't even be interested in helping out the company? After all, aren't they competitors in the market place?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Fly a Qs tail number on strike and you're a scab.

Can you please clarify which Q tails you're referring too?

And are you speaking on behalf of your pilot group in a leadership position with the IBT or is this just your opinion?

 

[buttercup]

To even entertain the thought of considering a charter pilot a scab for flying our trips while we are on strike is ludicrous. The fact is that if not one NJA guy crosses the picket line there is no way in hell any supplemental lift would matter anyway. Perhaps we should focus our energy on the very small percentage of weak dicks in our company who are just thrilled to be flying a jet for whore wages and give them some self-worth so that they dont cross a picket line.

 

[x402]

Can you please clarify which Q tails you're referring too?

And are you speaking on behalf of your pilot group in a leadership position with the IBT or is this just your opinion?

A QS tail is just that, no mystery. If someone has a 4 or 5 in front of it, I ( personally ) will consider it flying stuck work. I'm sure you guys will do what your conscience tells you to do. We are one company, that's what every mgt guy said this week in recurrent. And I've flown too many G-V trips to think otherwise.
You may fly if we go out, but you know how I'll look at you. Even if you don't care.

 

[netjetwife]

As214, the group you refer to may be able to "see the light". I don't think they are the pilots' biggest challenge among those in their own ranks. The fearful ones, are going to be harder to convince, I think. Read some of the posts made here by "Casino" workers who try to tell us that the union's goals for decent/fair wages are going to put the company out of business. As laughable as the idea seems to us, I've personally had discussions with a few pilots like that. Luckily the vast majority stopped drinking the Kool-aid long ago, but 100% participation is a lofty goal, indeed. I'd expect to see much educating of the issues to take place between now and ????