Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[netjetwife]

I agree with Lejet55. Without a good contract, many will leave. But it is a job where working conditions and wages are negotiated so it only makes sense for the pilots to try to make the job they enjoy one they can afford to stay at.

 

[FracCapt]

FracCapt, it isn't "rhetoric" that motivates my posts, but a genuine concern for those caught in a "sticky" situation.
....
It was my hope that an open-minded discussion might yield ideas of how to handle the problem should it arise.

It's obvious you're looking out for nobody but yourself and your family. Which is what those that you are asking to support you at the risk of their livelihoods will do....look out for themselves and their family.

No, I don't expect "EVERYBODY in the ENTIRE aviation industry" to be interested. I did click on the FRACTIONAL section of the board

But earlier you posted....

And before flaming me, you guys should realize that my post is based on a belief that a strike by NJ pilots would be very short-lived and I'd hate to see you wind up with the label (I'm not sure WHO'S right in their assertions) if it turns out that the NJ pilots ARE right. So yes, I AM asking for your support and also hoping that you will all elect to be "safe rather than sorry".

So...was that not directed at people OUTSIDE of fractional aviation? 135 pilots are not part of fractional aviation....yet, you are telling them that they should call in sick because they are stressed about the fact that some guys say they will be called a scab if they do ANY charter trips for NJA.

Sorry, you're case isn't getting any better.

Happy Mothers Day

 

[DO-82 driver]

I would love to see how our owners would respond to the variations in service they would get. I'm not saying that the vendors are unsafe, I'm just saying that the type of service is going to vary from one vendor to another. Considering that we fly some of the riches people in the world I wonder how they are going to respond to these non-standard practices.

Might THEY feel there is a compromise in safety? The owners don't know any better, they are used to the way NetJets pilots did things. After all, NetJets prides itself on the standardization of its crews and standardization equates to safety.. Hey, I'm not making this up...this is what the sales people tell the owners. Now they are telling the owners that non-standardization is OK.

Many of our owners will not accept vendor flights because they feel they paid for NetJets pilots and that's what they want. Heck, its their money.

 

[semperfido]

I would love to see how our owners would respond to the variations in service they would get. I'm not saying that the vendors are unsafe, I'm just saying that the type of service is going to vary from one vendor to another. Considering that we fly some of the riches people in the world I wonder how they are going to respond to these non-standard practices.

Might THEY feel there is a compromise in safety? The owners don't know any better, they are used to the way NetJets pilots did things. After all, NetJets prides itself on the standardization of its crews and standardization equates to safety.. Hey, I'm not making this up...this is what the sales people tell the owners. Now they are telling the owners that non-standardization is OK.

Many of our owners will not accept vendor flights because they feel they paid for NetJets pilots and that's what they want. Heck, its their money.

probably all true....i wonder what Imus (g4) thinks? he is a huge promoter of net jets. along with Bo (citation 10). they always go on and on ad infinitum about how great it is. santooooli is probably paying them a pretty penny

 

[h25b]

I would love to see how our owners would respond to the variations in service they would get. I'm not saying that the vendors are unsafe, I'm just saying that the type of service is going to vary from one vendor to another. Considering that we fly some of the riches people in the world I wonder how they are going to respond to these non-standard practices. Might THEY feel there is a compromise in safety? The owners don't know any better, they are used to the way NetJets pilots did things. After all, NetJets prides itself on the standardization of its crews and standardization equates to safety.. Hey, I'm not making this up...this is what the sales people tell the owners. Now they are telling the owners that non-standardization is OK. Many of our owners will not accept vendor flights because they feel they paid for NetJets pilots and that's what they want. Heck, its their money.

I'm sure it will go over like a fart in church ... I'd like to know the details of the owner's agreements. What recourse do they have anyway ?

 

[DO-82 driver]

I don't know what recourse they have but a number of the owners I flew last week were insistant that "yellow ties" be up front.

I thanked them for their support....I did not answer any other questions they had...I just referred them to the web site.

Playing by the book.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Semperfido-

...the next 5 weeks are going to go by painfully slow

Diesel-

awww man here come the corporate pilots chiming in explaining to us how the world is.

STMFD.

It is becoming more and more obvious that there was NEVER any intent to negotiate a contract. Like I said you make your offer (read demand) and put a gun to the companies head with the threat of strike.

“STMFD”

That wouldn't be SHUT THE MOTHER *UCKER DOWN would it? I would guess those words are straight form the SU leadership huh? I see the intent to “negotiate” from its members.

I cant see ANY company willing or able to double a workforce of over 2000+ pay and still be “stable”. 150 dollar quarts of oil or not. No shell game can make up for the multi-millions you are demanding.


This is about vengeance. Plain and simple.


.




.

 

[x402]

Semperfido-


Diesel-


It is becoming more and more obvious that there was NEVER any intent to negotiate a contract. Like I said you make your offer (read demand) and put a gun to the companies head with the threat of strike.

“STMFD”

That wouldn't be SHUT THE MOTHER *UCKER DOWN would it? I would guess those words are straight form the SU leadership huh? I see the intent to “negotiate” from its members.

I cant see ANY company willing or able to double a workforce of over 2000+ pay and still be “stable”. 150 dollar quarts of oil or not. No shell game can make up for the multi-millions you are demanding.


This is about vengeance. Plain and simple.

God help the people trusting you to send them safely to their next destination. Your myopic view of what the company is spewing can't help but slant what you do at work. The shell game is clear, who gets hurt, the owner. They are being hurt now, without any work action. By the pathetic excuse for management you keep touting as your savior.
Netjets has failed to manage the owners money in their best interest. They make excuses and blame everyone, you, me and our owners.

 

[Hogprint]

Lets clear a couple of things up I R DXR,

SU hasn't encouraged the use of the term STMFD as far as I know. What they have done is methodically prepared us for that eventuality.

Where are you getting this vengence BS from? SU is/has done in six months what the former MEC (who, with an accommodating company, got us into this mess) should have done 3 1/2 years ago.

I know you said you have read the propoganda from the "Death Star" and the Union. You should be able to read between the lines. I can say that so far this MEC has been a straight shooter. I am going to hold them to that level of expectation.

On another note:

GRIZZ: would it be appropriate to post a reply off the SU board from brother G that explained why we left this counter proposal on the table?

 

[I-R-DXR]

Semperfido-


Diesel-


It is becoming more and more obvious that there was NEVER any intent to negotiate a contract. Like I said you make your offer (read demand) and put a gun to the companies head with the threat of strike.

“STMFD”

That wouldn't be SHUT THE MOTHER *UCKER DOWN would it? I would guess those words are straight form the SU leadership huh? I see the intent to “negotiate” from its members.

I cant see ANY company willing or able to double a workforce of over 2000+ pay and still be “stable”. 150 dollar quarts of oil or not. No shell game can make up for the multi-millions you are demanding.


This is about vengeance. Plain and simple.

God help the people trusting you to send them safely to their next destination. Your myopic view of what the company is spewing can't help but slant what you do at work. The shell game is clear, who gets hurt, the owner. They are being hurt now, without any work action. By the pathetic excuse for management you keep touting as your savior.
Netjets has failed to manage the owners money in their best interest. They make excuses and blame everyone, you, me and our owners.

I don't let this effect my work - I can assume it does not with you either.

But just how would those owners respond when you tell them "Shut the mother *ucker down"

By the pathetic excuse for management you keep touting as your savior.

Funny I don't remember EVER talking on behalf of the company See below. Nor have I taken the companies propaganda to heart.
You tell me who to believe:

We are negotiating with the companies and owners best interest at stake

or

STMFD



Hummmmm

.

 

[I-R-DXR]

I know you said you have read the propoganda from the "Death Star" and the Union. You should be able to read between the lines

Sorry seems to much BS out there to deal with. Thus my post a while back:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=53453

The only person that tried to help explain things was El Chup. Seems all I got was flames / and STMFD postings from others.

.

 

[x402]

Funny I don't remember EVER talking on behalf of the company See below. Nor have I taken the companies propaganda to heart.
You tell me who to believe:

We are negotiating with the companies and owners best interest at stake

Your comments and questions are right out of the Boisture play book, I don't have the time or inclination to go back and copy them all here. You want to be devils advocate for who? You don't get to vote on our contract and we believe that our cause is just and worthwhile. We back our negotiators and we will do what is necessary to suceed in this battle with management. When you guys upstairs grow a pair you'll stand up, too. Until then, f off.

 

[I-R-DXR]

Funny I don't remember EVER talking on behalf of the company See below. Nor have I taken the companies propaganda to heart.
You tell me who to believe:

We are negotiating with the companies and owners best interest at stake

Your comments and questions are right out of the Boisture play book, I don't have the time or inclination to go back and copy them all here. You want to be devils advocate for who? You don't get to vote on our contract and we believe that our cause is just and worthwhile. We back our negotiators and we will do what is necessary to suceed in this battle with management. When you guys upstairs grow a pair you'll stand up, too. Until then, f off.

Funny never met the man. How about im the advocate for all those "casino" workers that will be out of a job if you STMFD.

Why would I need to grow a pair and stand up? Remember I took a job I could be happy with.

.

 

[ce750drvr]

Ya know what DXR, I very rarely post on here, but I'm tired of your sh!t!!
You are wrong in this being "vengence" for us. You are right though, if they can't pay us "an average" wage (we are not asking to be the highest paid, just what is average) then most of us do not want to work here. Therefore, yeah, STMFD!!

We care what happens here, WHILE WE ARE EMPLOYEES. If we are no longer employees because the company is too greedy to recognize us, then why would we care? Because we are worried about your job? Give me a break. We are so fed up with this crap because Mr. Santulli himself told us that if we give him time, he will take care of us. Well his time is up. We have grown this company on OUR backs, not yours. Part of my flying education was how to file flight plans, did it before, can do it again. People shouldn't get worked up over your opinions. Our job is the only job here that makes this company go. Don't take this the wrong way...we appreciate what you do and you guys do a fine job. But, without pilots, NOBODY would have a job. We know how to file flight plans, do a weight and balance, get our own food, figure out our own weather, etc., etc.

You have your job because of pilots. We make half what we should be making. Also, don't whine to us that we knew what we would be making when we came here. We know that, we also know that RTS gloated that we could have done ALOT better after the last deal was done. We know what we SHOULD be paid and so does he.

Let me ask you a question, Do you think it is at all POSSIBLE that the company might be lying to you about us? Or do you believe that there is no way on Gods green earth that they could EVER tell a lie? Seriously, come on man, you can't be that gullable!!

It's not about toys, it is about a wide range of reasons. I am a divorced (she couldn't handle me being gone) father of three with an enormous child support bill. I live in a one bedroom apt on a sh!tty side of town because that is all that I can afford. College for the kids is right around the corner, I guess my kids will have to join the military and become a moving target in Iraq just so we can afford to send them to school. Think again ass clown, if the dispatchers, meteorologist, schedulers, and whoever else upstairs were to become union and you wanted to fight for a pay raise, we wouldn't dog you, we would support you.

If you want to learn something and ask questions to be informed, then fine, we can understand that and are more than happy to help you. But DO NOT come here and stir up crap because you don't like what you hear. Try to look at it from our point of view, to which you HAVE NOT, even though you claim too.

You are buying off on the company spin, it is unfortunate....Please, if you have an answer to the question above, I would like to hear it...but ask yourself this:

From BRK annual report (you can find it on the internet) the company (NJA), in 2003, made a pretax profit of 72 million but said that we made only a very small profit because of the losses in Europe. In 2004, they made a pretax profit of 191 million (almost trippled), but again only made a small profit because of the losses in Europe. Both years they claim that next year the indicators were pointing to NJE turning the corner and making money. So, do you mean to tell me that we almost trippled our money and Europe TRIPPLED ITS LOSSES!?!?!?!?!?!

I don't think so, and neither should you. We WILL fight for what is average, nothing more, nothing less. But we will fight and stop this merry-go-round if we have too. So, with all do respect, shut up......please.

 

[I-R-DXR]

First off Sir

I have no problem with you making a fair wage. I NEVER HAVE. I have only become an A$$ when pilots in OUR company have threatened my job - ergo my family

I came here to find some sort of the truth. It become very apparent that if you even question the SU you get flamed here.

And no we have grown this company on ALL of our backs. Pay is not everything one gives up.

Your comment about the BRK reports does beg the question: why did the union not suggest its own auditor?

Anywho thanks for the rare post Sir.

.

 

[I-R-DXR]

LOL

wow don't I feel like a pilgrim in an unholy land


Sorry seems I brought god back into this discussion


.

 

[Diesel]

Well i was going to type a reply but ce750drvr hit the nail on the head.

I don't need to explain to all the pilots on this board how much we do day in and day out. I believe that my level of customer service has gone up higher than it ever was before. My goal? To make sure the owners are on our side. To make sure they value the level of service we provide them.

Think about crewfood for a minute. They don't buy us crewfood because they are nice and want us happy. they buy us crewfood because it keeps us moving, keeps us on in the seat. We aren't taking an hour lunch down at applebees. They know the tradeoff for catering is a jet that isn't making money.

 

[Grizz]

GRIZZ: would it be appropriate to post a reply off the SU board from brother G that explained why we left this counter proposal on the table?

Contact him directly via our board to see if he has no problems with you posting it over here. If he doesn't, we won't have a problem with it either.

 

[Grizz]

Your comment about the BRK reports does beg the question: why did the union not suggest its own auditor?

2 reasons that I can think of right away:

1) NetJets wants to selectively pick and choose what books are looked at. Regardless of who audits the books with the company selecting what we get to see it's hard to get an accurate picture of where all the money is going to.

2) Business decisions made by NetJets management control both the short term and long term profit and loss of the company. The company has made it very clear that they have been willing to sacrafice short term profits to gain market share. We're unwilling to conitune financing that effort with wages that are well below what NBAA averages are. In other words - if the business model is so badly laid out that NetJets can't make a profit and pay it's employees a fair wage, most of us want to know that right now before we waste anymore time at this company.

 

[Live4flyng]

I came here to find some sort of the truth. It become very apparent that if you even question the SU you get flamed here.

If you really want truthful answers, post your questions and they will be answered with facts.