Southwest submits proposal to acquire Frontier Airlines

[Porch]

I don't think any F9 pilots wants to bump a WN pilot and take their earned seniority. There's 5000+ WN pilots and 600+ F9 pilots, really within the big picture how much is someone going to lose if there is some type of integration to save a fellow pilot from ending up in the streets... Nothing monumental. If I were on the flip side, I'd be happy to give a little to help a fellow pilot out. I understand the selfishness of pilots, and the mememe philosophy. I personally just want a damn job, preferably WN vs. the later. I've been on the street for a while and its UGLY as heII out there, its a flippin nightmare. Honestly, putting applications in at some BS retail crap... they look at your application and literally laugh... Hmmm, your an airline pilot with over 10K of flight time and your applying here? How long do you plan on being here? Where do you see yourself in 5 years... OMG, are you kidding me; for a $10/hr job! If the shoe was on the other foot, we'd all understand where the F9 guys are coming from. No one is asking for the world, their being bought out and like most professionals, would like to carry over into the other company... not left to rot on the street. The outcome from that would be devastating in this environment: Alcoholism, drugs, phycological issues, family problems. I hope WN and FAPA can come to some conclusion on how to preserve jobs with the local Denver employees. I feel Denver and Colorado will keep a close eye on these issues of unemployment and how WN handles it. It is saving the local airline, but at what cost to the resources that matter the most: human beings and their survival.

 

[sshrae]

I'm sure you do. That's why the F9 guys are screwed!

Just a ray of sunshine. You obviously got hosed on the ATA deal. I would probably be pissed too, however, I don't think you should call doom and gloom just yet for the f9 posse. Most of the guys/gals I have talked to at both companies are optimistic a mutually beneficial agreement can be reached.

 

[Red Baron]

I don't think any F9 pilots wants to bump a WN pilot and take their earned seniority. There's 5000+ WN pilots and 600+ F9 pilots, really within the big picture how much is someone going to lose if there is some type of integration to save a fellow pilot from ending up in the streets... Nothing monumental. If I were on the flip side, I'd be happy to give a little to help a fellow pilot out. I understand the selfishness of pilots, and the mememe philosophy. I personally just want a damn job, preferably WN vs. the later. I've been on the street for a while and its UGLY as heII out there, its a flippin nightmare. Honestly, putting applications in at some BS retail crap... they look at your application and literally laugh... Hmmm, your an airline pilot with over 10K of flight time and your applying here? How long do you plan on being here? Where do you see yourself in 5 years... OMG, are you kidding me; for a $10/hr job! If the shoe was on the other foot, we'd all understand where the F9 guys are coming from. No one is asking for the world, their being bought out and like most professionals, would like to carry over into the other company... not left to rot on the street. The outcome from that would be devastating in this environment: Alcoholism, drugs, phycological issues, family problems. I hope WN and FAPA can come to some conclusion on how to preserve jobs with the local Denver employees. I feel Denver and Colorado will keep a close eye on these issues of unemployment and how WN handles it. It is saving the local airline, but at what cost to the resources that matter the most: human beings and their survival.

Nice post. It puts it all in perspective. All of this will work itself out. Best wishes.

 

[inflightboi175]

everyone is making this sound like a done deal. i would not be surprised if jetblue or virgin america put a bid in

 

[vtwo]

Look out boys

Or Southwest can take over running F9 , keep it separate while installing one of their former executives to run the place for while. Then they get all info they need from the inside , dismantle F9 while handing over money making routes to WN, and blocking potential competition,all the while they look like the white knight. Then in the end F9 fails and closes the doors .
All employees are left standing in the morning with out jobs .


Think it won't/can't happen? well they did that once already.

 

[HalinTexas]

Just a ray of sunshine. You obviously got hosed on the ATA deal. I would probably be pissed too, however, I don't think you should call doom and gloom just yet for the f9 posse. Most of the guys/gals I have talked to at both companies are optimistic a mutually beneficial agreement can be reached.

I was a fool. I believed.....

ATA had a "lot of good people" too. Global operations. ETOPS on everything. MNPS for NAT ops. on the B737 approved less than two months prior. An eminent international codeshare with ATA. John Dennison told us to hang on. Some AF general on the World BOD told our union directly that HK was directly involved and influential in MP's purchase of WAH. All BS.

I really wasn't pissed at SWA. Their loss. They'd be going to Europe as well as the rest of the Americas by now. Which means they'd probably have the contract they wanted now, too.

I think one of the biggest reasons it never happened, as we were told by SWAPA leadership, was ALPA. SWAPA and GK wanted nothing to do with ALPA. FAPA? Please. ATA/ALPA blew, but it was 1100 strong in 2004 when this all came down. FAPA can't afford to fight it. Whatever it is.

I'm not bitter anymore, just tired of watching the fools in this industry. Everywhere, here, on all sides. I'm a student of history. I've moved on. Probably won't ever fly commercially again, not to say that I'm not looking.

Good luck. Don't be a sucker.

 

[T3700]

The law says that if one airline buys more than 50% of the assets of another, there will be a seniority integration. How do you think re-interviewing to make sure you meet Southwest's vaunted culture fits in here? I think Southwest management made the decision that Frontier pilots would fit in when they made the offer to buy.

 

[sshrae]

Good luck. Don't be a sucker.[/QUOTE]

I understand your pessimism. I think you will not see FAPA fighting SWAPA as much as ALPA did. FAPA and F9 management had a very strong relationship, not saying your union didn't, but they are just going to be looking to keep their jobs somehow more than anything. They don't have much to bargain with if this goes through. Hopefully it works out, I am cautiously optimistic for F9.

 

[filejw]

The law says that if one airline buys more than 50% of the assets of another, there will be a seniority integration. How do you think re-interviewing to make sure you meet Southwest's vaunted culture fits in here? I think Southwest management made the decision that Frontier pilots would fit in when they made the offer to buy.

All true , I think this would be the first time this law would be used...

 

[HalinTexas]

Not if they keep the companies separate.

The WARN act was supposed to protect us, too. Yeah, right.

 

[CrownandCoke]

don't know if anyone posted about Lynx yet, but remember there's over 120 pilots there too

 

[PreContact]

How many F9 pilots retire in the next 5 years?

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Watch for DAL to make a play for Alaska shortly. Even the mighty SWA can't pull in two directions at once. Frontier is the perfect distraction, and I bet RA even put Republic up
to this just to sucker SWA in.

Nu

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

don't know if anyone posted about Lynx yet, but remember there's over 120 pilots there too

Do you really think anybody is worried about THEM??

BTW, funniest avatar comment award goes hands-down to you!

 

[vtwo]

All true , I think this would be the first time this law would be used...

Then why are Northwest, Compass, Pinacle, and Mesaba not on one list?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Heyas,

Watch for DAL to make a play for Alaska shortly. Even the mighty SWA can't pull in two directions at once. Frontier is the perfect distraction, and I bet RA even put Republic up
to this just to sucker SWA in.

Nu

Nu,

You are giving Dick "I'm not here to merge the airline" Anderson toooooo much credit.

 

[AlbieF15]

I am reminded of the FAR SIDE cartoon with missionaries/explorers being all giddy at the warm reception of the villagers...oblivous to all the heads on stakes nearby of similiar missionaries/explorers.

The guys firing the warning shots (like HAL) have lived a SWA merger. The guys who are optimistic are reading press clippings. SWA captains will have zero interest in adding other folks on top of them. SWA FOs, especially those junior that are bouncing between bases, also have little interest in assisting anything other than a staple job. 4000 pissed off pilots can exert a lot of pressure on a company that thrives on fuel savings, tight turns, and a sense of teamwork to eek out profitablity.

I have friends at SWA and Frontier. I don't want my junior buddies at SWA screwed into being bounced out of base. I don't want my Frontier friends out of work. I am afraid one of them will occur, and my bet is that my Frontier friends need to consider looking for work. I suspect the "hiring" will be remarkably similar to standard SWA hiring, which means they will take 25-35% of the who they interview. The ATA numbers were much more abysmal.

Good luck to all involved...seriously....

 

[StopNTSing]

everyone is making this sound like a done deal. i would not be surprised if jetblue or virgin america put a bid in

I don't mean to make this into a "my dad can lick your dad," but really, how many times have you seen SWA outbid at an auction?

 

[Mea25000]

No one is going to buy AS we cost way too much

 

[Jetjockey]

A buying of assets.....not a merger.

Ask the ATA guys how that worked out. Whatever makes you guys sleep better at night.