Southwest submits proposal to acquire Frontier Airlines

[texman]

All that you say is true, however, F9ers should should think about this if we are stapled:


1. WN is overstaffed by about 400 pilots right now; who do you think the furloughees will be?

2. F9 has fewer commuters than most airlines due to the relatively good QOL in DEN. When the WN DEN base opens after the purchase, who do you think is going to end up commuting to OAK?

3. WN has some of the highest paid work groups in the airline business, therefore, their cost structure is getting to be relatively high. UAL was the "place to be" 15 years ago. Point is: even the seemingly invincible can fall fast and hard, do you want to be at the very bottom if that happens?

Just being Devils advocate here guys....this may work out ok for we F9ers but don't think you have won the lottery just yet....

1. Actually we overstaffed by 250 pilots. Rnp will kick in this fall bring those numbers down.

2. Yes QOL will go down. But haven a job is better than none.

3. Our cost structure is different, we are productive group plus the UA gave up scope in the Late 90's to the RJ's, which we don't want at swa.

Hey just think all the guys at F9 will be on first year probation. Free beer!

 

[texman]

Fair and equitable will be for the unions to decide because it will never make it to arbitration. Would the F9 folks rather have;

1- Pay protection at the bottom of the SWA list (a 30% automatic raise or so with a stable airline)

or

2- A future with a slippery CEO at Republic...the Republic that allegedly wishes to get unlimited scope relief.

Option 2 sounds dicey at best. The choice sounds simple.

I think that SWA pilots would see a relative seniority or a ratioed integration as deal breakers. Why piss off 6000 SWA guys to please 600? Why slow their growth and allow others to patch the hole they've already paid for? Why let SWA haters and bad apples onto the list unquestioned with SWA trying to protect their culture? If I was at F9, I would be happy with being at the bottom of the SWA list with pay protection. How can the Republic alternative for them be any better?

This is a good question. Can any F9 or swa guy's or girl's chime in.

 

[ChinaClipper]

I think many of us...

think that what is at F9 now, is more than just, as on WN guy put it, "just scraps at the Bankruptcy table" If we were just that, I think WN wouldn't start the bidding at $133 Mil. The F9 DEN operation is good for WN in a number of ways 1) Access to the A Concourse-this is a HUGE competitive advantage, even more so is your planning to get bigger. 2) WN can eliminate a thorn in the side-an ongoing F9 financed by RAH, would continue to be an unhealthy distraction in what seems to be the real job, beating up UA. 3) F9's customer base-F9 has a fanatical core of customers, WN gets most of than if they make the effort. Frequent flier program conversion etc. 4)Ya get a turn key Mexico operation-or would you prefer Volaris? 5)Ya get MARKET SHARE! Faster than slugging it out over time-efficiency of cash 6) Ya get GREAT EMPLOYEES!-After 4 airlines, I can say WITHOUT A DOUBT, the current F9 culture is the closest thing you find to WN's. And I am no kool-aid drinker.... The question, it seems, is ANY of these components of value to the folks currently on WN seniority list??? We are about to find out....

 

[AlbieF15]

Something to consider is that many junior SWAPA pilots felt disenfranchised by the senior union leadership after the push for the regulated age change. Just recently, those same junior pilots voted down by the slimmest of margins a new TA largely due to concerns about trip trading, Q of life considerations, and to a lesser extent code share. The "retro pay" provisions in the TA would have given very little to the guys hired the last 24-36 months.

Now those same folks are the ones with the most to lose if a seniority list is created using either DOH (very bad) or relatively seniority (also bad) for them. They are waiting and watching to see how SWAPA proposed to handle this. If SWAPA decides that the junior guys need to move down to accept making a merger happen, I think you'll see a union fractured so much that SWAPA will have a hard time getting ANYTHING passed in the future. If they growl and fight to protect every SWA pilot currently on the list, they run the risk of looking greedy and damaging the potential bid.

Interesting battle. I'm grabbing popcorn, but hoping everyone comes out okay. The Morris pay protection scheme has the best potential to not create a huge rift within the SWA pilots, but but any such plan would scare the Frontier guys who would be at the bottom of a list. I've got friends on both sides...and I see no easy fix.

Good luck to all...

 

[learherkjay]

I say we wait for the actual "binding" bid language to come out. Hope it works out for the F9 guys, and I hope we can get you guys over here in a fair way for both groups.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

If I were at Frontier, and my future with Southwest turned out to be predicated by reinterviewing..............well, I'd be thinking of how I could be the first to interview. If you could interview without the type, but had to have it to start class, I'd be looking into getting a 73 type..............what a better way to gain seniority than do it ahead of the other 600 or so guys who are asking for the same thing. What if they have a new hire class in Oct, half are going to be from the pool and half are going to be from Frontier,,,,,,,,,,well, the sooner in training, the sooner out of Oak. If you are on the payroll 1 Jan, then you get profit sharing for that year. I'm not say'n, I'm just say'n!

Dick

 

[ChinaClipper]

Chief????

Are you kidding? This MUST be flame bait? If not, I think we can file this under "why the profession has become somewhat tarnished" folder......

 

[Hamburger]

A shadow shall fall over the Universe...
And evil will grow in its path...
And death will come from the skies...

Southwest Airlines... the Loc-Nar of the Airline World.

Frontier just got issued a One Way Ticket to Midnight.

 

[FDJ2]

I believe the press release stated that WN was going to keep the companies seperate, right? Why do you think that is?

Could it be that the cost of adding a second type to the SOC?