Southwest submits proposal to acquire Frontier Airlines

[FDJ2]

this is all very preliminary, but the law states very clearly that you can not acquire an airline, fire all of the employees, and the offer to re-hire them.

Had f9 failed to obtain exit financing, and subsequently liquidated, swa or anyone else could sweep in and purchase individual assets just as they did at ata.

If no one else had bid for f9, you can bet that swa would have been waiting to pounce on the assets. Now that f9 has at least one offer, swa is executing plan b. By acquiring f9, swa is preventing rah from coming in and expanding f9 market share with e190's. Swa wants denver, and this is the only way they can get it due to the fact that f9 is not going to completely disappear.

Still a long way before swa or anyone else owns us.

Bingo !!!

 

[Vegaspilot99]

Maybe RAH will buy Lynx.

I wouldn't be surprised to see SWA sell off Lynx, but I'd much prefer Skywest or something. Either way I think SWA getting F9 will be better in the long run.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

I don't know anybody at Frontier, and I like everyone I know at SWA. I've been through TWA/AA and now AWA/US and I'll give you Frontier guys my opinion. Take no prisoners. Don't believe anything management tells you and do not compromise. You are only a cog in the wheel of the deal. If they want to get it done, they'll get it done, regardless of whether you give in to their demands or not. Insist on a fair seniority integration process. Call their bluff when they tell you they're going to fire you if you don't play ball. The money men want their deal and they will try to scare you with the threat of losing your jobs. Don't buy it. Good luck.

 

[Prog 2/2]

Pssst.....don't look now chief, but this one has gone straight past the flirtatious codeshare stage and on to the chapel of M&A. SL32 has NOTHING to do with this pending deal! Had we voted in that turd of a TA, SWAPA would have been simply along for the ride as the target "transaction" alluded to in TA section 1 was clearly F9, and that process was spelled out for us with a merged list scenario ala Bond-McCaskill.....and with a specific allowance to codeshare with a regional operator (Lynx) involved in any acquistion. As it stands right now, our current contract Section 1 language doesn't allow any alter-ego carriers, so they gotta "meet & discuss" big-time on this one; i.e. SWAPA now gets a seat at the table on how this whole deal gets done. It's apparent now that F9 has been in Gary's sights for some time, and since no one from the company thought the TA would actually be voted down (how's it feel to be taken completely for granted?), they now find themselves scrambling to still make it happen and keep the pilots on board. IOW, we suddenly have a HUGE amount of leverage....I hope SWAPA has learned from recent events and uses it wisely. :smash:

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[waveflyer]

Let's see here: LGA, BOS, MKE, MSP- haven't even thought about ATL yet- an acquisition on the horizon in a successful/expanding market- and a management that's in a hurry to get the deal done. It does sound like leverage to me- regardless of the latest economic news- not time to rape the company- but certainly doesn't need to lose ground to inflation and should address all the concerns. Seems wise to have turned down the 1st offer

 

[gearup5]

I wouldn't be surprised to see SWA sell off Lynx, but I'd much prefer Skywest or something. Either way I think SWA getting F9 will be better in the long run.

Frontier=ATA
Lynx=Chicago Express

Read the press releases and the internal memos. They are not planning on merging anything.
WAKE UP people.

 

[waveflyer]

I have a much different impression of ATA and frontier- I view ATA as a company that was solid in charter and struggling to gain a foothold in scheduled service. Whereas frontier definitely has loyalty in Denver and has never split their efforts. I think as much as anything wn is after that consumer loyalty- which would be hurt if there were a bunch of layoffs- I just think the employees are coming w/ this one- And I'd like to see it happen- they're a good fit- in house union- good attitudes/ GREAT people!

 

[Hamburger]

Bend over, here comes the LUV.
If you think Southwest wants ANYTHING to do with Airbuses, you are a fool.
ATA had -800s and they wouldn't even deal with the complication of needing an extra flight attendant on the same Aircraft.
Frontier is in the position where it is simply cheaper to buy and dismantle them than it is to endure a war of attrition. If this goes through, Frontier is Doomed. Ask anyone from ATA. They are going to turn what they find useful into money and dump the empty husk on the side of the road.
Unfortunately, they don't find your pilots useful.

 

[Popeye0537]

I can't believe how excited some of the F9 guys sound about the prospect of INTERVIEWING to become a WN pilot. Hello....wake up! You are going to be on the street! The only way your going to fly one of Southwest 73's is if you BUY a ticket.

I don't see anyone going toe to toe with WN in a bidding war so your fate may already be sealed. I don't feel sorry for the guys who were bashing RAH saying they would rather "burn this place down" then working for a regional. Southwest will burn it down FOR you.

RAH=borg
WN=deathstar

 

[krewmeel]

Fellow Animals: a warning!

Pssst.....don't look now chief, but this one has gone straight past the flirtatious codeshare stage and on to the chapel of M&A. SL32 has NOTHING to do with this pending deal! Had we voted in that turd of a TA, SWAPA would have been simply along for the ride as the target "transaction" alluded to in TA section 1 was clearly F9, and that process was spelled out for us with a merged list scenario ala Bond-McCaskill.....and with a specific allowance to codeshare with a regional operator (Lynx) involved in any acquistion. As it stands right now, our current contract Section 1 language doesn't allow any alter-ego carriers, so they gotta "meet & discuss" big-time on this one; i.e. SWAPA now gets a seat at the table on how this whole deal gets done. It's apparent now that F9 has been in Gary's sights for some time, and since no one from the company thought the TA would actually be voted down (how's it feel to be taken completely for granted?), they now find themselves scrambling to still make it happen and keep the pilots on board. IOW, we suddenly have a HUGE amount of leverage....I hope SWAPA has learned from recent events and uses it wisely. :smash:

Fellow F9ers StopNTSing has nailed it! Due to the fact that Bond-McCaskill law requires a "fair and equitable" integration and arbitration (if both parties can't agree on their own....and they never do) it is unlikely that WN mgt. and SWAPA are going to agree on integrating the pilots and other union workgroups. SWAPA is not going to want to see anything less than a staple job on the F9 pilots, which they won't get under the new law. WN has already said that they want no arbitration involved in this deal. Therefore the only way that WN mgt. is going to get F9 is by winning the auction and then holding F9 at arms length and gradually replacing each airbus on the F9 cert. with a 737 on the WN cert. Each airbus that leaves F9 will trigger a full flight crew layoff at F9 and a new hire crew at WN until all airbus and F9 are completely gone. This is a win/win for SWAPA/WN mgt. and a big lose for F9 employees. LUV eliminates the competition, owns Denver, and gets more newhires on the property which helps existing WN pilots and makes mgt. happy since newhires are much cheaper than integrated F9 pilots with longevity.

WN may give layed off F9ers a "preferential interview" (provided that they are B737 typed, of course) but will probably not hire many because their attitude will likely be bitter having lost everything and having to start over at the hands of their defeator.

Now can LUV win the auction? They probably can outbid RAH but, because F9 is operating in Ch. 11 this doesnt mean that they automatically win. There are many unsecured creditors on the BK board at F9, all with different agendas. Airbus Industrie, for example does not want to see 52 used airbuses hit the open market and kill their profits on new airplanes for the next couple of years. They can vote no on the WN deal and yes on the RAH deal. FAPA is also on the board and is going to want to see a "written guarantee" that the pilots will be given jobs (without interviews) and integrated onto the WN list or they will vote no. Without some guarentee of jobs at WN then the RAH is a better deal for F9 pilots. The judge (who has sided with labor recently) will make the final decision as to who gets F9 based on all of the unsecured creditors claims as well as the impact on labor as well as the state of Colorado, city of Denver etc.

Listen guys, I want to make the big LUV bucks as much as the rest of the F9 pilots (although Im not thrilled about flying their ancient technology cramped, fat, ugly little aircraft for 5 legs/day), but unless SWAPA and WN can come up with a plan and a guarantee to integrate F9 pilots fairly BEFORE they buy us then we are probably hosed just like ATA was and we are better off flying for Brian "the Bible" Bedford.

 

[shagadelic]

I think the Bond MacCaskill law applies here, but the law says we come to an agreement, or on to arbitration. All SWA has said is that without an agreement with the unions, then no deal. We won't go to arbitration. I think if we purchase Frontier, the pilots come too, at least that's what I have heard from some of our union guys in the "know". The question is, will the unions come to an agreement. I would think even a pay protected staple, with the ability to make 140 grand within a few years, as an FO, with a solid company, would be better than taking a chance on Republic.

Personally, I'm all for this, I think it's a win/win for everyone involved. But we have a lot of worry right now amongst our junior pilots. A hard-line stance from Frontier guys would scuttle this thing quicker than anything, IMHO. Fortunately, I haven't seen this, as most I've talked to are excited about the prospects of coming over, and I think the vast majority of us would love to have them.

BTW, the law does not say you can't staple. It says "fair and equitable". And that is for the two unions to hash out. Once again, if they or us decide it's not fair or equitable, then fine. We'll pass. The last thing we need is a big ugly integration.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Wasn't there a furloughed US Air pilot at Morris?

Story is that he came to SWA via the buyout....was a Capt at that time....got called back by US Air...left a plane at the gate in SAN to go back to US Air...

Shortly after he got back....9-11 happened...and he was promptly furloughed again.

 

[shagadelic]

Ummm, Morris was in 94. I've never heard anything remotely similar to what you're talking about. A guy in my new hire class left to go to United after being at SWA for a few months, that didn't work out good for him, but who knew?

 

[Whine Lover]

" ATA...struggling to gain a foothold in scheduled service. "

Well, I wouldn't call being the largest carrier in MDW (surpassing SWA for many years ), the largest carrier in IND, and operating a scheduled service Route System that encompassed 42 cities exactly "struggling".

Would you?




YKMKR

 

[arjayeffo]

Anybody??

A shadow shall fall over the Universe...
And evil will grow in its path...
And death will come from the skies...

Southwest Airlines... the Loc-Nar of the Airline World.

 

[sshrae]

I can't believe how excited some of the F9 guys sound about the prospect of INTERVIEWING to become a WN pilot. Hello....wake up! You are going to be on the street! The only way your going to fly one of Southwest 73's is if you BUY a ticket.

I don't see anyone going toe to toe with WN in a bidding war so your fate may already be sealed. I don't feel sorry for the guys who were bashing RAH saying they would rather "burn this place down" then working for a regional. Southwest will burn it down FOR you.

RAH=borg
WN=deathstar

You are correct that if this deal with WN goes through frontier will cease to exist before long, however, I think you are wrong about the F9 pilots ALL going to the street. You need to review the McCaskill Bond. This is a buyout, not a finance deal like ATA. SWA never owned ATA, they just gave them money and had a codeshare. There is a big difference. Plus the BK judge will have the employees of Frontier's interests in mind. He will not let this deal go through if it will mean all the employees will go to the street. If that is SWA's intent then RAH will more than likely win the decision. Do yourself a favor and review the bond, you might think differently.

 

[TV9Driver]

So what happens to all us SWA poolies? Are we getting flushed?

 

[OurMoney1]

You are correct that if this deal with WN goes through frontier will cease to exist before long, however, I think you are wrong about the F9 pilots ALL going to the street. You need to review the McCaskill Bond. This is a buyout, not a finance deal like ATA. SWA never owned ATA, they just gave them money and had a codeshare. There is a big difference. Plus the BK judge will have the employees of Frontier's interests in mind. He will not let this deal go through if it will mean all the employees will go to the street. If that is SWA's intent then RAH will more than likely win the decision. Do yourself a favor and review the bond, you might think differently.

The BK judge has a responsibility to the creditors. Dont get caught up in the kool-aide that somehow jobs will be preserved. Money talks, people walk....I've read the Bond and its spirit means well but between all of that is precedence and there is alot to indicate that the debtors are always taken care of first, people second.

 

[Flying the Line]

Bond-McCaskill will only come in to play if there is no agreement reached and SWA buys F9 anyway.

 

[FR8dognit]

Bond-McCaskill will only come in to play if there is no agreement reached and SWA buys F9 anyway.

The way I read it the latter will not happen [WN buys F9 anyway]