Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan SLI!

[Flyer1015]

Wrong way....Pinnacle Pete's way. Right way....some form of a fair relative seniority for all pilot groups involved.

Pinnacle Pete isn't too far off the truth. The problem with your 'fair relative' way is that it doesn't acknowledge a *certain* carrier's shrinking future. Colgan brings a junior group, but a fast growing one. Pinnacle brings a group comparable to Mesaba (except on the senior side (before 2000)), and in addition, brings a constant jet fleet (no growth or loss). The remainder (Mesaba) brings a relatively senior group with a shrinking fleet type. Any relative integration will have 9E/9L take a burden for the loses of those Saabs.

In conclusion, there just isn't a 'fair' way of integrating this. I'd imagine some kind of hybrid list. I don't see a single method applied uniformly. Regardless, hopefully there will still be protections (time) before people start jumping across certificates.

 

[Inconceivable]

Posting the decision of an appeals court in a case wherein he sued, lost, appealed, and lost is offensive? If you want offensive you should google his name and see what else pops up.

It would be hard for even Principled Pete to argue that anonymity applies here. He may drive airplanes for a living, but he lost the "fellow pilot" status years ago.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Pinnacle Pete isn't too far off the truth. The problem with your 'fair relative' way is that it doesn't acknowledge a *certain* carrier's shrinking future. Colgan brings a junior group, but a fast growing one. Pinnacle brings a group comparable to Mesaba (except on the senior side (before 2000)), and in addition, brings a constant jet fleet (no growth or loss). The remainder (Mesaba) brings a relatively senior group with a shrinking fleet type. Any relative integration will have 9E/9L take a burden for the loses of those Saabs.

In conclusion, there just isn't a 'fair' way of integrating this. I'd imagine some kind of hybrid list. I don't see a single method applied uniformly. Regardless, hopefully there will still be protections (time) before people start jumping across certificates.

Our grandfathered flowthroughs negate the losses of what Saabs we still have. And it's not like we are wildly overstaffed right now anyway. We are running our own new hire class.

 

[DoinTime]

Our grandfathered flowthroughs negate the losses of what Saabs we still have. And it's not like we are wildly overstaffed right now anyway. We are running our own new hire class.

By my math you will be losing 20 saabs (approx. 200 pilots and assuming the Airways flying lasts beyond its one year contract) but only have about 70-80 still to flow. That equates to an aggregate job loss in my book.

Also looking at the numbers in the latest 10-Q statement, Mesaba operates 29% of the total PNCL block hours but accounts for almost 35% of the total pilots. You must not be too short staffed.

 

[bri5150]

Pinnacle Pete isn't too far off the truth. The problem with your 'fair relative' way is that it doesn't acknowledge a *certain* carrier's shrinking future.

Oh, you must be talking about Pinnacle's 200 fleet. Don't worry, we don't want to screw you. We all want a fair integration. In all honesty, we are all screwed together. I don't see any way this company can come up with flying for 2,500+ pilots over the next five years.

 

[Flyprdu]

And it's not like we are wildly overstaffed right now anyway. We are running our own new hire class.

For Colgan's Saabs.

Please do not misconstrue the fact that you have 90 guys eligible to leave for Delta as some sort of equal footing for the massive furloughs XJ would have endured had this deal not occurred.

Without the deal, you'd have 300+ on the street with more looking down the barrel in 2011.

I'm not saying you should kiss our feet, but please don't delude yourselves either.

 

[bri5150]

For Colgan's Saabs.

Please do not misconstrue the fact that you have 90 guys eligible to leave for Delta as some sort of equal footing for the massive furloughs XJ would have endured had this deal not occurred.

Without the deal, you'd have 300+ on the street with more looking down the barrel in 2011.

I'm not saying you should kiss our feet, but please don't delude yourselves either.

/sigh I can't wait for the next two years of my career to be over.

 

[Flyer1015]

Oh, you must be talking about Pinnacle's 200 fleet. Don't worry, we don't want to screw you. We all want a fair integration. In all honesty, we are all screwed together. I don't see any way this company can come up with flying for 2,500+ pilots over the next five years.

Pinnacle's 200 fleet has not been touched. No cuts of 50 seat jets at Pinnacle so far. IMO, we won't see any until at least 2017 when the CPA is up. OTOH, Mesaba is losing a few dozen Saabs, and that equates to pilot job losses on the order of hundreds. (Probably at least 200 as mentioned before). You have to admit, this merger is a savior for Mesaba in many ways. How much movement has Mesaba had? In almost 3 years, Mesaba has been stale with the exception of the new LGA Saab flying. With just a one year contract on that, I wouldn't hold my breath. In comparison, Colgan brings a junior group, but at least they bring growth to the mix. Continued deliveries of Q400s ensures they are not stale and positively growing. Although Pinnacle isn't growing, it isn't shrinking either. Our 200s and 900s are constant so far (last year compared to this year, compared to next year, etc). Mesaba brings a very senior pilot group, no growth, but the opposite: shrinking fleet. Had it not been for the Saab LGA flying by US Air Express, Mesaba was looking at becoming a RJ-only airline of 60 airplanes once the Saabs were gone. Almost like the next Comair, which will be down to just 44 RJs. It's sad, but it is what it is. The arbitrator will consider these facts, under the category 'career expectations' and his SLI award will respect career expectation for each individual airline. From a career expectation standpoint, Colgan and Pinnacle are ahead of Mesaba. To draw that conclusion, just look at what would happen to the individual carrier if they didn't merge. And the Mesaba's Saabs all gone was writing on the wall, dwindling down to just 60 RJs.

9 more days. You can cut each others throats then. Until then, cheers!

 

[Flyer1015]

Please do not misconstrue the fact that you have 90 guys eligible to leave for Delta as some sort of equal footing for the massive furloughs XJ would have endured had this deal not occurred.

Without the deal, you'd have 300+ on the street with more looking down the barrel in 2011.

I'm not saying you should kiss our feet, but please don't delude yourselves either.

Bingo. Someone gets it.

 

[bri5150]

Pinnacle's 200 fleet has not been touched. No cuts of 50 seat jets at Pinnacle so far. IMO, we won't see any until at least 2017 when the CPA is up. OTOH, Mesaba is losing a few dozen Saabs, and that equates to pilot job losses on the order of hundreds. (Probably at least 200 as mentioned before). You have to admit, this merger is a savior for Mesaba in many ways. How much movement has Mesaba had? In almost 3 years, Mesaba has been stale with the exception of the new LGA Saab flying. With just a one year contract on that, I wouldn't hold my breath. In comparison, Colgan brings a junior group, but at least they bring growth to the mix. Continued deliveries of Q400s ensures they are not stale and positively growing. Although Pinnacle isn't growing, it isn't shrinking either. Our 200s and 900s are constant so far (last year compared to this year, compared to next year, etc). Mesaba brings a very senior pilot group, no growth, but the opposite: shrinking fleet. Had it not been for the Saab LGA flying by US Air Express, Mesaba was looking at becoming a RJ-only airline of 60 airplanes once the Saabs were gone. Almost like the next Comair, which will be down to just 44 RJs. It's sad, but it is what it is. The arbitrator will consider these facts, under the category 'career expectations' and his SLI award will respect career expectation for each individual airline. From a career expectation standpoint, Colgan and Pinnacle are ahead of Mesaba. To draw that conclusion, just look at what would happen to the individual carrier if they didn't merge. And the Mesaba's Saabs all gone was writing on the wall, dwindling down to just 60 RJs.

9 more days. You can cut each others throats then. Until then, cheers!

Again, an argument about who is going to lose more aircraft at which point. Mesaba is losing them now (which are mostly gone already btw and the sky hasn't fallen), and Pinnacle probably losing a hell of a lot more in 2017 (Only 16 planes that Delta wants). Together we are not in a good spot. How's that raise working out btw?

edit: Oh yeah, and my career expectations before the Pinnacle HOLDINGS purchase was to flow to Delta. I went back to school to finish my four year degree to do that, but now I am finishing it up to get the hell out of here before the sh!t really hits the fan.