Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan SLI!

[gojo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the flow originally a Northwest flow? BIG difference. Delta has never been a fan of flothroughs. Your flow situatin changed from the 2008 merger of NWA/Delta. Then it wasn't a NWA flow, it was a Delta flow. And Delta, quite frankly, doesn't want flows. And besides, like you just said, you were screwed regardless. Delta wanted the flow dead, and it is. If you weren't bought, you'd not only be going to the Saab, you'd be downgraded. 3 dozen Saabs parked is a LOT of furloughs and downgrades. That is your reality before the Pinnacle holdings purchase. You weren't screwed because of the Pinnacle purchase, you were screwed had you NOT been purchased. 60 RJ-only is a harsh reality.

Look at the Republic/Frontier/Lynx/MidEx SLI award. Read the decisions made by the arbitrator Dana Eischen. Note the history the arbitrator provides and the snapshot views of each, and note how THAT ties into the decision of the SLI award.

Apples and oranges

 

[CptMurf]

I still see a common factor: "asset transfer." Your CRJs need to move out of Mesaba to somewhere else. In that sense, with your ASA analogy, there is some merit to the situation. As for jobs coming, one can point to protections within the Section 1 scope of their CBA, but keep in mind, "asset transfer" is not something specifically addressed. The 9E FA union already took a harsh standpoint of 'staple.' I don't think they want to screw over all XJ FAs, rather, make a point that just because the airplanes come in an asset transfer does not mean the FAs come to. Put it this way: Imagine if this JCBA (and hence, the one list) DIDN'T happen, and Pinnacle holdings STILL moved over the CRJs to Pinnacle and called it Pinnacle airlines. In that asset transfer, how exactly do you think the XJ pilots would be treated? You're sorely mistaken if you think a merger policy would be used, or even applied, in that case. Consider yourselves lucky that the JCBA passed, and the one list is happening. It is the ONLY way the Mesaba pilots can expect to come to the 9E side with seniority protections. XJ knows this, and that's why the rumors were flying around that XJ wanted this JCBA passed because the "or else" scenario to no one-list would be horrific.

Uhhh... You need to read the McCaskill-Bond Ammendment.

 

[higney85]

Ahh!!! Murf... how dare you bring reality into the picture! FI doesn't allow talk with facts, logic, and legal precedence.

 

[gojo]

Ahh!!! Murf... how dare you bring reality into the picture! FI doesn't allow talk with facts, logic, and legal precedence.

Ha ha, lmao. It would appear flyer doesn't either

 

[RJLoser]

This topic is pointless. It's gonna be one list. We don't decide how. Why can't we all just get along?

 

[Flyer1015]

It's slightly entertaining. I don't want any one group to get totally hosed. I'm not the "staple 'em all" crowd. The arbitrator, a single man, will decide the QOL for over 3000 pilots. Good luck to us all, we'll need it.

 

[FOrever85]

Are you bi-polar, or did your beer muscles wear off. I am going to guess you, like most of your pilots, were in high school when that LOA passed. And like most of the pilots that spout this LOA BS, you do not understand it. NOT THAT IT MATTERS BECAUSE FOR THE 1000th TIME IT DOES NOT MATTER, GET OVER IT!

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

It's slightly entertaining. I don't want any one group to get totally hosed. I'm not the "staple 'em all" crowd. The arbitrator, a single man, will decide the QOL for over 3000 pilots. Good luck to us all, we'll need it.

Nah, I'm pretty sure he's married....

 

[xjhawk]

I like how these pinnacle guys (not all of you) bring up these useless arguments to justify your wanting to do a screw job on Colgan and Mesaba.

The letter of Agreement from back in the 90's-Do you have a clue on how that went down? Have you flown with and talked with those guys to find out their opinion on the matter? DO any of you know that they are fullly Mesaba pilots and do not feel like they were screwed when MEsaba extended GOOD WILL and gave them an opportunity. Oh and when Pinnacle's MEC would not return the favor when we were in bankruptcy-I am sure it made any future attempt at that letter null and void. I think it expired anyways.

You really think the republic model of screwing and stapling applies to this situation? They were not all ALPA-we have rules to abide by. end of story.

That the Saabs were leaving...blaw blaw blaw.... therefore you did not have good career expectations. Ha, guess what? Delta has changed their minds on how they think of Props-but they have not changed their minds on how they think of the crj 200. I think this....if Delta were no matter what going to sell or GIVE Mesaba away to anyone, the Saab program is and should be seen as an asset. Same can be said about our large amount of crj 900's and small number of crj 200's, ASSET. Let me remind you that Pinnacle has a very large fleet of crj 200's and small number of 900's. If it were not for the great potential of Colgans Q400's I think Pinnacle might have been hurting (but Colgans Q program needed new blood to lead it out of its .....troubles). Enter Delta's offer to finance the sale of Mesaba (even though Skywest did not need Delta's financing to buy but Delta did not want too many eggs in one basket - see Comair as an example)

The most important factor in a fair (everyone gets screwed) integration and not the the staple or ratio that some idiots at Pinnacle want (Pinnacle Pete)-Your airline did not buy us, your parent company did-who also owns Colgan-who is also in this with Mesaba. So just because you share a name with your parent company does not make you special.

So you see.......and hopefully that Arbitrator can see the many different factors involved in this situation.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Not that it matters right now, but the LOA is still active. The fact that most of us were not on property doesn't change that fact. It seems that people on both sides haven't read the actual text of the LOA to see when it is called into effect and what would happen if it were "activated".

Bloch may very well consider the LOA when making his decision as all variables should ve taken into account.

 

[mesaba13]

The big difference back when that happened is that mesaba Airlines did not have to take a single Express pilot, none. Many Mesaba pilots moved down our list when this happened but agreed to it anyway. There was no language in any contract that said they had to be employed.

 

[CptMurf]

The closest example I could think of would be...
If 9E offered Freedom pilots to merge into the 9E list based on their current Freedom seniority, because you opened a JFK base and realize that you ultimately took their flying. I'm pretty sure you did not contemplate that at all, but that is what the LOA was for, and how it was applied.

 

[SEVEN]

The big difference back when that happened is that mesaba Airlines did not have to take a single Express pilot, none. Many Mesaba pilots moved down our list when this happened but agreed to it anyway. There was no language in any contract that said they had to be employed.

This is why the arbitrator will not use the LOA 9E argument. It isn't applicable in this situation. Apples & oranges. Unfortunately too many 9E pilots can't tell the difference between an apple and an orange. Just a little tip: one is red and the other is orange.

 

[Flyer1015]

The most important factor in a fair (everyone gets screwed) integration and not the the staple or ratio that some idiots at Pinnacle want (Pinnacle Pete)-Your airline did not buy us, your parent company did-who also owns Colgan-who is also in this with Mesaba. So just because you share a name with your parent company does not make you special.

That holdings thing was just a shell game, to get around our scope clause. Pinnacle Airlines became "Pinnacle Airlines inc" and we were held by "Pinnacle Airlines Holdings." It was then "Holdings" bought Colgan and operated it as a stand-alone carrier. It was 100% pure B.S. to circumvent our scope.

Here are a couple points.

1. Pinnacle Airlines creates Pinnacle corp. Pinnacle corp then buys Colgan. Colgan grows exponentially while Pinnacle inc pilots are downgraded and displaced. Not 1 downgrade and displacement but 2.

2. Few years later Pinnacle corp buys Mesaba. Mesaba was losing their saabs but Pinnacle Corp was able to find more flying for some of them. Mesaba pilots are recalled and get more flying for their planes.

3. At the same time Mesaba pilots are being recalled 100 Pinnacle pilots are displaced out of Memphis and 50 Pinnacle pilots were displaced out of Minneapolis. This is going on while there are mesaba pilots junior to the pinnacle pilots in both bases flying the same equipment. So in essence pinnacle pilots were kicked out of their bases while junior Mesaba pilots are still there.

There are a lot of guys who were forced out that are senior to their Mesaba counter parts in both bases. Once again pinnacle pilots get the shaft. We have had 0 growth over the last 3 years. Colgan has grown by leaps and bounds. Mesaba was furloughing and parking saabs. Pinnacle buys them and finds more flying for the Mesaba pilots. Pinnacle pilots still stagnant with no growth.

 

[Flyer1015]

This is why the arbitrator will not....

Seven, unless you are arbitrator Bloch himself, NO ONE knows what the arbitrator will or will not do.

Weren't you the arrogant pilot who badmouthed 9E as an unsafe operation and that you'd never be caught working here? So what will it be? Will you resign outright, or bid over to the props to stay 'Mesaba'?