Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan SLI!

[Flyprdu]

Pinnacle is not our saviors. Delta scripted all of this.

I never said we were. All I'm asking for is for you XJers to be a little more humble.. and keep in mind where you could be.

 

[SEVEN]

I never said we were. All I'm asking for is for you XJers to be a little more humble.. and keep in mind where you could be.

We've already been there. How about you guys need to be humble. Just think where you could be.....enjoying your min day, trip guarantee and raise? You can thank my MEC. Wise up.

 

[CptMurf]

I never said we were. All I'm asking for is for you XJers to be a little more humble.. and keep in mind where you could be.

*sigh*
If you could only follow your own advice.

 

[Flyprdu]

We've already been there. How about you guys need to be humble. Just think where you could be.....enjoying your min day, trip guarantee and raise? You can thank my MEC. Wise up.

*smooches*

 

[Flyer1015]

If you look at just today as you like to, no 50 seaters leaving, no flow guys leaving, and all the saabs going away(snapshot). 250 (at least needed for proper staffing)-200(lost from saab)=50 jobs gained(snapshot).

Give me a break. Your math is fabricated. Mesaba's addition is NOT going to build 50 jobs. It's going to take away 200 once the Saabs are gone. Pinnacle was hiring and upgrading even BEFORE the JCBA was TA'ed. Last year, Pinnacle hired 120-130 new FOs and upgrade several dozens. This year, even BEFORE the JCBA, Pinnacle planned to hire at least 200-250 pilots and upgrade throughout the year. Mesaba's addition does not add any positive jobs. If anything, 4-6+ year stale FOs at Mesaba will jump at upgrades at others' expense. And make no mistake, the junior end of the list (consisting of all 3 9E/XJ/9L) will share the brunt of the cuts from the Saabs being parked. There is nothing positive from Mesaba's addition.
And don't forget. Your XJ brethren offered 9E Saab CAs 2 for 1, Jetstream CAs 3-for-1, and FOs a staple when MSP flying started disappearin. Don't expect everyone to just forget history.

 

[Flyer1015]

The monthly revenue is set up to make the payment to Delta and gaurentees a profit. Pinnacle is not our saviors. Delta scripted all of this.

Regardless, if Pinnacle Holdings didn't "buy" Mesaba, Mesaba would be at 60 airplanes (all CRJs) by end of 2012. In a large way, it is a savior. And now, the cuts on the junior end will not be just XJ guys from the parking of the Saabs, but junior 9E and 9L guys too.

 

[bri5150]

Give me a break. Your math is fabricated. Mesaba's addition is NOT going to build 50 jobs. It's going to take away 200 once the Saabs are gone. Pinnacle was hiring and upgrading even BEFORE the JCBA was TA'ed. Last year, Pinnacle hired 120-130 new FOs and upgrade several dozens. This year, even BEFORE the JCBA, Pinnacle planned to hire at least 200-250 pilots and upgrade throughout the year. Mesaba's addition does not add any positive jobs. If anything, 4-6+ year stale FOs at Mesaba will jump at upgrades at others' expense. And make no mistake, the junior end of the list (consisting of all 3 9E/XJ/9L) will share the brunt of the cuts from the Saabs being parked. There is nothing positive from Mesaba's addition.
And don't forget. Your XJ brethren offered 9E Saab CAs 2 for 1, Jetstream CAs 3-for-1, and FOs a staple when MSP flying started disappearin. Don't expect everyone to just forget history.

I think you are missing the point with his statement. The contract that we all have now is mostly the old Mesaba contract. By implementing that contract, the entire company needs to staff 250 more pilots than with the piece of crap you (and Colgan) were working with before the merger. I can't verify the number, but I see his point.

edit: OMG, I didn't see the LOA remark. Is Express 1 owned by Mesaba because of that transaction? Of course not. That means it was a different situation. If Delta took your 200's tomorrow, and gave them to ASA, would you think that was the same type of situation Mesaba and Pinnacle are in now? That is what you are trying to say. My guess is you would be happy if ASA offered you a job (if you were going to get furloughed) let alone including some seniority. Oh, and we weren't offered jack sh!t when you guys were getting 200's as we were getting furloughed, going through shamruptcy. Not even offered a job. God bless when I have to fly with guys that act like the things you are spewing out.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Your XJ brethren offered 9E Saab CAs 2 for 1, Jetstream CAs 3-for-1, and FOs a staple when MSP flying started disappearin. Don't expect everyone to just forget history.

Not worth it. Call your reps. You're getting your own history you profess not to forget wrong.

 

[bri5150]

Regardless, if Pinnacle Holdings didn't "buy" Mesaba, Mesaba would be at 60 airplanes (all CRJs) by end of 2012. In a large way, it is a savior. And now, the cuts on the junior end will not be just XJ guys from the parking of the Saabs, but junior 9E and 9L guys too.

And with the flow, and Delta hiring (snapshot), I was looking at being on the 900 as a Captain, as opposed to the Saab, real soon. (snapshot). And then, I was going to be flowing to Delta in the next 3 years of Delta hiring (snapshot). Sounds like Pinnacle isn't my savior. It sounds like I got screwed out of an easy way to get to the next part of my career.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

And with the flow, and Delta hiring (snapshot), I was looking at being on the 900 as a Captain, as opposed to the Saab, real soon. (snapshot). And then, I was going to be flowing to Delta in the next 3 years of Delta hiring (snapshot). Sounds like Pinnacle isn't my savior. It sounds like I got screwed out of an easy way to get to the next part of my career.

You can always return that Delta hat or just sell it to a Compass pilot!!

 

[Flyer1015]

edit: OMG, I didn't see the LOA remark. Is Express 1 owned by Mesaba because of that transaction? Of course not. That means it was a different situation. If Delta took your 200's tomorrow, and gave them to ASA, would you think that was the same type of situation Mesaba and Pinnacle are in now? That is what you are trying to say. My guess is you would be happy if ASA offered you a job (if you were going to get furloughed) let alone including some seniority. Oh, and we weren't offered jack sh!t when you guys were getting 200's as we were getting furloughed, going through shamruptcy. Not even offered a job. God bless when I have to fly with guys that act like the things you are spewing out.

I still see a common factor: "asset transfer." Your CRJs need to move out of Mesaba to somewhere else. In that sense, with your ASA analogy, there is some merit to the situation. As for jobs coming, one can point to protections within the Section 1 scope of their CBA, but keep in mind, "asset transfer" is not something specifically addressed. The 9E FA union already took a harsh standpoint of 'staple.' I don't think they want to screw over all XJ FAs, rather, make a point that just because the airplanes come in an asset transfer does not mean the FAs come to. Put it this way: Imagine if this JCBA (and hence, the one list) DIDN'T happen, and Pinnacle holdings STILL moved over the CRJs to Pinnacle and called it Pinnacle airlines. In that asset transfer, how exactly do you think the XJ pilots would be treated? You're sorely mistaken if you think a merger policy would be used, or even applied, in that case. Consider yourselves lucky that the JCBA passed, and the one list is happening. It is the ONLY way the Mesaba pilots can expect to come to the 9E side with seniority protections. XJ knows this, and that's why the rumors were flying around that XJ wanted this JCBA passed because the "or else" scenario to no one-list would be horrific.

 

[Flyer1015]

And with the flow, and Delta hiring (snapshot), I was looking at being on the 900 as a Captain, as opposed to the Saab, real soon. (snapshot). And then, I was going to be flowing to Delta in the next 3 years of Delta hiring (snapshot). Sounds like Pinnacle isn't my savior. It sounds like I got screwed out of an easy way to get to the next part of my career.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the flow originally a Northwest flow? BIG difference. Delta has never been a fan of flothroughs. Your flow situatin changed from the 2008 merger of NWA/Delta. Then it wasn't a NWA flow, it was a Delta flow. And Delta, quite frankly, doesn't want flows. And besides, like you just said, you were screwed regardless. Delta wanted the flow dead, and it is. If you weren't bought, you'd not only be going to the Saab, you'd be downgraded. 3 dozen Saabs parked is a LOT of furloughs and downgrades. That is your reality before the Pinnacle holdings purchase. You weren't screwed because of the Pinnacle purchase, you were screwed had you NOT been purchased. 60 RJ-only is a harsh reality.

Look at the Republic/Frontier/Lynx/MidEx SLI award. Read the decisions made by the arbitrator Dana Eischen. Note the history the arbitrator provides and the snapshot views of each, and note how THAT ties into the decision of the SLI award.

 

[bri5150]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the flow originally a Northwest flow? BIG difference. Delta has never been a fan of flothroughs. Your flow situatin changed from the 2008 merger of NWA/Delta. Then it wasn't a NWA flow, it was a Delta flow. And Delta, quite frankly, doesn't want flows. And besides, like you just said, you were screwed regardless. Delta wanted the flow dead, and it is. If you weren't bought, you'd not only be going to the Saab, you'd be downgraded. 3 dozen Saabs parked is a LOT of furloughs and downgrades. That is your reality before the Pinnacle holdings purchase. You weren't screwed because of the Pinnacle purchase, you were screwed had you NOT been purchased. 60 RJ-only is a harsh reality.

Look at the Republic/Frontier/Lynx/MidEx SLI award. Read the decisions made by the arbitrator Dana Eischen. Note the history the arbitrator provides and the snapshot views of each, and note how THAT ties into the decision of the SLI award.

Oh, so when we are talking about the flow, it doesn't matter what the "snapshot" was, but the intent. When we talk about the 200's it doesn't matter what the intent is, but the "snapshot" is what they will use.

So here is what each airline brought to the merger:

Pinnacle/Colgan: A huge amount of aircraft Delta doesn't want, although there is no specific plan we know of to reduce them right now.

Mesaba: A Saab fleet that was already half gone (and the world wasn't coming to an end), a contract that was light years ahead of the other two (including the need for more pilots), better (still not real good) management, way better training department (from what I hear from our furloughs that went there), impeccable safety record, better union leadership, more aircraft that our main contractor wants (900's), flow (which we mostly lost, but we still bring guaranteed attrition when Delta hires), and last but no least, pilots that aren't intentionally trying to screw over their co-workers.

Did I miss anything?

 

[bri5150]

I still see a common factor: "asset transfer." Your CRJs need to move out of Mesaba to somewhere else. In that sense, with your ASA analogy, there is some merit to the situation. As for jobs coming, one can point to protections within the Section 1 scope of their CBA, but keep in mind, "asset transfer" is not something specifically addressed. The 9E FA union already took a harsh standpoint of 'staple.' I don't think they want to screw over all XJ FAs, rather, make a point that just because the airplanes come in an asset transfer does not mean the FAs come to. Put it this way: Imagine if this JCBA (and hence, the one list) DIDN'T happen, and Pinnacle holdings STILL moved over the CRJs to Pinnacle and called it Pinnacle airlines. In that asset transfer, how exactly do you think the XJ pilots would be treated? You're sorely mistaken if you think a merger policy would be used, or even applied, in that case. Consider yourselves lucky that the JCBA passed, and the one list is happening. It is the ONLY way the Mesaba pilots can expect to come to the 9E side with seniority protections. XJ knows this, and that's why the rumors were flying around that XJ wanted this JCBA passed because the "or else" scenario to no one-list would be horrific.

So, how did it get voted in? Why would Pinnacle pilots vote for a contract that would let someone come in to fly "their" aircraft? Oh, because we brought something to the table?

 

[gojo]

I think you are missing the point with his statement. The contract that we all have now is mostly the old Mesaba contract. By implementing that contract, the entire company needs to staff 250 more pilots than with the piece of crap you (and Colgan) were working with before the merger. I can't verify the number, but I see his point.

edit: OMG, I didn't see the LOA remark. Is Express 1 owned by Mesaba because of that transaction? Of course not. That means it was a different situation. If Delta took your 200's tomorrow, and gave them to ASA, would you think that was the same type of situation Mesaba and Pinnacle are in now? That is what you are trying to say. My guess is you would be happy if ASA offered you a job (if you were going to get furloughed) let alone including some seniority. Oh, and we weren't offered jack sh!t when you guys were getting 200's as we were getting furloughed, going through shamruptcy. Not even offered a job. God bless when I have to fly with guys that act like the things you are spewing out.

Save your breath.... Flyer is an arrogant ___ that feels he is entitled to everything. He's been very vocal since last July on why we should be screwed over and why we should be happy about it.

 

[gojo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the flow originally a Northwest flow? BIG difference. Delta has never been a fan of flothroughs. Your flow situatin changed from the 2008 merger of NWA/Delta. Then it wasn't a NWA flow, it was a Delta flow. And Delta, quite frankly, doesn't want flows. And besides, like you just said, you were screwed regardless. Delta wanted the flow dead, and it is. If you weren't bought, you'd not only be going to the Saab, you'd be downgraded. 3 dozen Saabs parked is a LOT of furloughs and downgrades. That is your reality before the Pinnacle holdings purchase. You weren't screwed because of the Pinnacle purchase, you were screwed had you NOT been purchased. 60 RJ-only is a harsh reality.

Look at the Republic/Frontier/Lynx/MidEx SLI award. Read the decisions made by the arbitrator Dana Eischen. Note the history the arbitrator provides and the snapshot views of each, and note how THAT ties into the decision of the SLI award.

Apples and oranges

 

[CptMurf]

I still see a common factor: "asset transfer." Your CRJs need to move out of Mesaba to somewhere else. In that sense, with your ASA analogy, there is some merit to the situation. As for jobs coming, one can point to protections within the Section 1 scope of their CBA, but keep in mind, "asset transfer" is not something specifically addressed. The 9E FA union already took a harsh standpoint of 'staple.' I don't think they want to screw over all XJ FAs, rather, make a point that just because the airplanes come in an asset transfer does not mean the FAs come to. Put it this way: Imagine if this JCBA (and hence, the one list) DIDN'T happen, and Pinnacle holdings STILL moved over the CRJs to Pinnacle and called it Pinnacle airlines. In that asset transfer, how exactly do you think the XJ pilots would be treated? You're sorely mistaken if you think a merger policy would be used, or even applied, in that case. Consider yourselves lucky that the JCBA passed, and the one list is happening. It is the ONLY way the Mesaba pilots can expect to come to the 9E side with seniority protections. XJ knows this, and that's why the rumors were flying around that XJ wanted this JCBA passed because the "or else" scenario to no one-list would be horrific.

Uhhh... You need to read the McCaskill-Bond Ammendment.

 

[higney85]

Ahh!!! Murf... how dare you bring reality into the picture! FI doesn't allow talk with facts, logic, and legal precedence.

 

[gojo]

Ahh!!! Murf... how dare you bring reality into the picture! FI doesn't allow talk with facts, logic, and legal precedence.

Ha ha, lmao. It would appear flyer doesn't either

 

[RJLoser]

This topic is pointless. It's gonna be one list. We don't decide how. Why can't we all just get along?