Pilots against JBPA (jetblue union)

[radarlove]

What's funny to watch is the cognative dissonance when it comes to pilot's political leanings (all Fox News, all-the-time) and their own self-interest/best interest.

From an economic standpoint, unions pay--universally--higher than market wages. If you are a worker, you can actually graph on paper how much better off, economically over time you are, or would be by belonging.

Next comes the kicker though, and this comes from experience, so listen up.

I was at a company much like JBLU, happy workers, good pay, managers you'd enjoy sharing a meal with..

...then we bought a union carrier. Suddenly, the pilots from the other company were sitting at the negotiating table with OUR management, discussing and agreeing to items that affected US, and we didn't have a seat at the table.

Talk about powerless. How were we better off without representation? When Delta buys JBLU, or UAL or whoever, you guys will all get your one year of severance pay and get to wave bye-bye to your career as the Alpa MECs fight over the spoils

And of course, like in my situation, you won't have a seat at the table when it occurs.

 

[Mamma]

Mamma,

I don't think flying to NY, having a slice at Danny's pizza and drinkin in the Kew counts as working?

True, but you didn't have "Pizza Boy" as your partner in Orlando! That was work.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

True, but you didn't have "Pizza Boy" as your partner in Orlando! That was work.

Is that a picture of Mister Red Baron in your avatar?

Rumor is they can't get enuff of him in BOS -- he's a 190 CA there.

 

[regionaltard]

I agree with BC. Please check the CBB about posting internal memo's on a public site.

Since it's copied out of the Ford & Harrison playbook isn't it already in the public domain?

 

[Mamma]

My avtar is not pizza boy. It is some generic guinea pig. I am sure they can get enough of pizza boy in Boston.

Is that a picture of Mister Red Baron in your avatar?

Rumor is they can't get enuff of him in BOS -- he's a 190 CA there.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Since it's copied out of the Ford & Harrison playbook isn't it already in the public domain?

Haha. Good point. Post away.

Never mind the CBB.

 

[727Niteflyer]

I have a question for people against the union. We all know the pros and cons but my question is what makes you think that under more economic pressures in the future that the company will not start taking away more of your benefits and pay for that matter ?

 

[Splert]

Have you approached Dave and asked him about his position to a CBA and a mechanism to negotiate with out the NMB or a Union on our property? It is my understanding we could have a CBA without a Union.

That sounds like Jim Hnat told Dave to tell the BoBs to say that we can have a CBA without a Union. Alan was pimping this idea a few months ago.

So please tell the world what are the requirements of a Collectively Bargained Agreement are? What procedures must be followed? Can the airline support the organization who collectively bargains with it with millions of dollars each year? What is the risk to us if an entity (what entity, BTW) determines at a latter date that the airlines and the pilots are not or have not been bargaining true as adversaries? What would happen at that point?

You guys are dangerous to my career.



Dave whispers to the PVC and then to one or more of the BoBs and then this become fact and you guys don't have the character to research this issue BEFORE repeating it.

Dave told me the same thing that we could have a CBA without a Union. Then a funny thing happened. The PVCs Alan and Chris started talking about it as if they just got laid for the first time. Then the BoB have started talking about it.

So again tells us what the processes, procedures, and risks. Did the blood rush from your head to your unit when Dave whispered to you that we can have a CBA without a union? To Dave this idea is a talking point and to you and the BoBs treat Dave’s talking points as gospel.


Educate us!

 

[radarlove]

That's a "company-sponsored union" and is against current labor law.

When the laws were written to encourage union participation, many companies tried this route, "Ok, sure you can have a union. We'll just take care of that for you."

The courts have denied, denied denied over the years.

I am still of the opinion that the "committeee" that JBLU sponsors fall outside the boundaries of "company-sponsored union", it would be interesting to watch a challenge.

But the card campaign should solve the puzzle.

In a union, line pilots have MORE say in their future, not less. Even though "outsiders" get to negotiate, line pilots get to vote thumbs-up or thumbs-down on any negotiated contract or side-letter.

Right now, does the average line pilot get to vote (with a vote that is counted) on contractual issues?

 

[Splert]

That's a "company-sponsored union" and is against current labor law.

When the laws were written to encourage union participation, many companies tried this route, "Ok, sure you can have a union. We'll just take care of that for you."

The courts have denied, denied denied over the years.

I am still of the opinion that the "committeee" that JBLU sponsors fall outside the boundaries of "company-sponsored union", it would be interesting to watch a challenge.

But the card campaign should solve the puzzle.

In a union, line pilots have MORE say in their future, not less. Even though "outsiders" get to negotiate, line pilots get to vote thumbs-up or thumbs-down on any negotiated contract or side-letter.

Right now, does the average line pilot get to vote (with a vote that is counted) on contractual issues?

Two different subjects.

Wrong Entity, the RLA doesn't determine if a CBA is a CBA when there is no NMB elected organization.

RLA Section 152 Fourth prohibits the funding of the labor organization with airline funds. SkyWestALPA.org was able to get a TR but long story. I'll detail later. Look it up in the meantime.

 

[bluesideup340]

If you're spending $1 million to run these fake "committees," then tons of money is being flushed down the toilet. I'm sure the JBPA will be far more efficient.

SUUURRE JBPA will be much more efficient with running a Union and committees. However, they have not told us yet how they are going to fund their Union. How much will it cost me

As for decertification, it's just as easy as this election you're about to have. Turn in your cards again, and tell everyone not to vote. If less than 50% votes, then the union is decertified. Pretty simple.

Aren't you that rarara ALPA guy? Of course you would say that. You and I know that this half baked idea or an independent Union has a 50/50 chance of succeeding. (see FedEx, Airtan). Once it is ready it will be ready for easy picking by ALPA or the Teamsters.

 

[PCL_128]

Actually, I'm pretty sure they have told you how they're going to fund it. Haven't they already said what their dues rate is going to be?

As far as ALPA, whether you stay independent or go with ALPA at a later date is up to you. Personally, I think it's better to have ALPA, but if you can run a good union in-house, then more power to you.

 

[bluesideup340]

I love to hear FOs tell me that Captain such-n-such is running around telling them JB is gonna furlough if a union is voted in. Once again, really? One day, no union, no furloughs. Next day, union, furloughs. Is that how it works?

So JBPA would and does support reduced bid divisors if need be to retain all pilots on pay role? Is that what you are saying?

 

[bluesideup340]

Actually, I'm pretty sure they have told you how they're going to fund it. Haven't they already said what their dues rate is going to be?

As far as ALPA, whether you stay independent or go with ALPA at a later date is up to you. Personally, I think it's better to have ALPA, but if you can run a good union in-house, then more power to you.

Dear PCL
Any idea why ALPA is not trying to get a piece of the action at JetBlue?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Dear PCL
Any idea why ALPA is not trying to get a piece of the action at JetBlue?

Because half of the pilots at Jetblue are refugees from former ALPA carriers...