Pilots against JBPA (jetblue union)

[bluesideup340]

If you're spending $1 million to run these fake "committees," then tons of money is being flushed down the toilet. I'm sure the JBPA will be far more efficient.

SUUURRE JBPA will be much more efficient with running a Union and committees. However, they have not told us yet how they are going to fund their Union. How much will it cost me

As for decertification, it's just as easy as this election you're about to have. Turn in your cards again, and tell everyone not to vote. If less than 50% votes, then the union is decertified. Pretty simple.

Aren't you that rarara ALPA guy? Of course you would say that. You and I know that this half baked idea or an independent Union has a 50/50 chance of succeeding. (see FedEx, Airtan). Once it is ready it will be ready for easy picking by ALPA or the Teamsters.

 

[PCL_128]

Actually, I'm pretty sure they have told you how they're going to fund it. Haven't they already said what their dues rate is going to be?

As far as ALPA, whether you stay independent or go with ALPA at a later date is up to you. Personally, I think it's better to have ALPA, but if you can run a good union in-house, then more power to you.

 

[bluesideup340]

I love to hear FOs tell me that Captain such-n-such is running around telling them JB is gonna furlough if a union is voted in. Once again, really? One day, no union, no furloughs. Next day, union, furloughs. Is that how it works?

So JBPA would and does support reduced bid divisors if need be to retain all pilots on pay role? Is that what you are saying?

 

[bluesideup340]

Actually, I'm pretty sure they have told you how they're going to fund it. Haven't they already said what their dues rate is going to be?

As far as ALPA, whether you stay independent or go with ALPA at a later date is up to you. Personally, I think it's better to have ALPA, but if you can run a good union in-house, then more power to you.

Dear PCL
Any idea why ALPA is not trying to get a piece of the action at JetBlue?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Dear PCL
Any idea why ALPA is not trying to get a piece of the action at JetBlue?

Because half of the pilots at Jetblue are refugees from former ALPA carriers...

 

[PCL_128]

Dear PCL
Any idea why ALPA is not trying to get a piece of the action at JetBlue?

When I was doing organizing work for ALPA National a couple of years ago, pilots from JetBlue did come to Herndon to discuss it. ALPA was very interested, but the JetBlue pilots determined that there was probably too much of an anti-ALPA contingent at JetBlue to have a successful drive.

 

[bluesideup340]

.

The first point kills me -- so JB management would want to negotiate away stuff we already have? Really? So sure about that? That would kill the culture, and it would certainly kill any remaining doubt as to what the company really cares about.

But hey, you'd have the UNION to blame. Kinda like telling your kid that he MADE you hit him.

BC a lot of hopeful thinking on your part. For starters, the culture is killed the moment we have a third party invovled.
But let us discuss, the beleive a union is a
"no lose" proposition. Weaker organizers just
promise employees will get a big raise or improved
benefits if they vote in a union. Smarter
organizers (and the weaker ones when it becomes
clear they are dealing with an employee who knows
how bargaining actually works) will say something
like the union would never agree to cuts in
current wages and benefits, so employees can only
win.

The facts? Bargaining is a two-way street and
unions regularly agree to lesser pay, benefits or
work conditions in a first contract. Unions need a
contract once they are voted in - no contract, no
dues and the enormous investment in the organizing
effort is lost. Of course this always depends on
the relative bargaining power of the parties, but
most of the time - especially in today's tough
market - unions have to agree to concessions to
get that first contract.

Unions have institutional goals in contract
negotiations (like dues checkoff and union
security) that smart companies will only agree to
in exchange for something else. That something
else is normally something employees either
currently enjoy or something the union promised
they'd get during the organizing campaign.

As soon as an election is won by the Union the job becomes to lower expectations. Why?
Because nobody would vote in a
union if they thought they would pay dues for less
pay and benefits. Unions are also great at
"spinning" concessions at the bargaining table.

The bottom line is that there is no such thing as
a free lunch. Negotiations are full of trade-offs
from the two sides to the contract. Some will
benefit the union (notice I did not say the
employees - the employees are not a party to the
contract). And some will benefit the company. If
that doesn't happen there won't be an agreement.

That's not to say that employees won't benefit at
all under the new agreement. The union has to get
an agreement that benefits them and politically
won't get them voted out of office (not an easy
thing to do). But the company has to get a contract they can live with.
If that happens there will be a contract - even if
that agreement cuts some of the current pay,
benefits or work conditions of employees. If not,
no deal.

 

[bluesideup340]

Because half of the pilots at Jetblue are refugees from former ALPA carriers...

That is what I thought. So how is JBPA different from ALPA?

 

[bluesideup340]

When I was doing organizing work for ALPA National a couple of years ago, pilots from JetBlue did come to Herndon to discuss it. ALPA was very interested, but the JetBlue pilots determined that there was probably too much of an anti-ALPA contingent at JetBlue to have a successful drive.

If UNIONS are that great for pilots why would there be an anti-ALPA contingent at JetBlue?
Did ALPA fail its membership?
How would JBPA be different?

 

[PCL_128]

If UNIONS are that great for pilots why would there be an anti-ALPA contingent at JetBlue?

Because pilots are notorious for placing blame where it doesn't belong.

Did ALPA fail its membership?

No.

How would JBPA be different?

JBPA will be whatever you and your fellow pilots make of it. One of your above posts claimed that the culture would be immediately destroyed because of the intervention of a "third party." This is absurd. For one thing, the union is you. There is no third party, because the pilots are the union, and the pilots have always been there. The only difference is that the pilots will now have collective bargaining authority. Second, culture doesn't have to suffer just because a union comes on the property. SWAPA and XJT ALPA are perfect examples of cultures where management works with the union instead of constantly attacking. This is largely up to your management, but if you truly believe that they are as reasonable and benevolent and the anti-union contingent claims, then there should be zero harm to your culture. In fact, it should improve.

Your claims are nothing more than tired old union busting rhetoric. Martin Levitt wrote about this in his book "Confessions of a Union Buster" years ago. The tactics are nothing new. It's the same tactics and rhetoric over and over again, always resulting in harm to working people and benefit to corporations that don't treat their employees with the respect that they deserve. JetBlue pilots, don't fall for this nonsense. Your senior management have contracts and legal protection of their own. You need it for yourselves just like they do.