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Pilots against JBPA (jetblue union)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dizel8
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If you're spending $1 million to run these fake "committees," then tons of money is being flushed down the toilet. I'm sure the JBPA will be far more efficient.

As for decertification, it's just as easy as this election you're about to have. Turn in your cards again, and tell everyone not to vote. If less than 50% votes, then the union is decertified. Pretty simple.
 
More lies by management spread as truth....

Recall Neeleman planted deep seated anti union seeds....

Who do you trust? Yourselves or someone else?
 

Craig Hoskins’ message to JB pilots on Union drive. Sure for all Radical True Union Believers this is just management propaganda. However, the issues and questions he raises are real how about some answers from JBPA instead of empty promises to solve all our problems. So fire away, here it goes:

“Obviously, the big event coming up that’s on everyone’s mind is the union election. The National Mediation Board will mail out voter instructions on January 6, and the voting period is between January 6 and February 3. I’d like to take a moment to clarify some huge misconceptions that are out there – I respect your right to choose representation, but you need to have the right information to make an informed choice, and I’m afraid there is a campaign afoot to spread wrong information.

First – IF a union is voted in, everything about your current working agreement is negotiable. There is no guarantee that the company will begin first contract negotiations from a position of status quo – and there’s no obligation to do so.

Second Negotiating a first contract is traditionally a pretty expensive thing to do. How does JBPA propose to pay for that? Also – running committees is pretty expensive, too, and if a union is voted in, that cost is borne by the union. Today, we spend around $1 million a year to run committees, and that number was projected to go up with the permanent working committee structure. If JBPA is voted in, JBPA pays for those committees. How much in dues does JBPA have to collect to support these committees? It may not be so much of a question about dues – you’re choosing to either hire a representative or not, so you know it’s going to cost you money if you choose JBPA. I’m raising this issue because there seems to be an unsophisticated appreciation for what it takes to run a union among certain people. If your union doesn’t know what it takes, you have no idea how much it will really cost you individually.

And finally – there remains an assumption that if the union doesn’t work out, then JetBlue Pilots can simply return to non-union status. This is the one of the most significant inaccuracies. If JBPA is voted in, and at some point in the future you feel it’s not working out, you really don’t have a lot of choices. The National Mediation Board does not have a “decertification” process per se. Historically speaking, once a union is on the property, it or something like it is here to stay."



You may want to check out the CBB and see what it says about posting stuff like this on the internet.

The first point kills me -- so JB management would want to negotiate away stuff we already have? Really? So sure about that? That would kill the culture, and it would certainly kill any remaining doubt as to what the company really cares about.

But hey, you'd have the UNION to blame. Kinda like telling your kid that he MADE you hit him.

Point two: a million to run committees that do what?

I love to hear FOs tell me that Captain such-n-such is running around telling them JB is gonna furlough if a union is voted in. Once again, really? One day, no union, no furloughs. Next day, union, furloughs. Is that how it works?
 
December 30, 2008 International airlines saw a huge 13.5 percent fall in cargo traffic in November and a drop of 4.6 percent in passengers as business shrank across the industry, the carriers' grouping IATA said on Tuesday.
The figures, reflecting what IATA has dubbed a "chronic crisis" with revenues tumbling and hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk, marked the sharpest declines since the months after the September 2001 attacks in the United States.
"The 13.5 percent drop in international cargo is shocking," said Giovanni Bisignani, Director General of the body, the International Air Transport Association which represents airlines operating 93 percent of cross-border flights.
"As air cargo handles 35 percent of the value of goods traded internationally, it clearly shows the rapid fall in global trade and the broadening impact of the economic slowdown," he declared.
"The industry is now shrinking by all measures."
Although airlines had cut flight numbers by 1 percent in November in anticipation of falling demand, the actual drop in passengers had left planes operating with nearly 27 percent of seats empty against only 24 percent in November 2007.
"We can expect deep losses in the fourth quarter," said Bisignani, who earlier this month forecast that total balance sheet deficits in 2008 of its some 230 members across the globe would reach USD$5 billion by the end of the year.
The November figures, issued from IATA's Geneva headquarters, showed airlines in the Asia-Pacific area -- which accounts for nearly 45 percent of global air freight -- seeing the largest regional cargo traffic drop, a whopping 16.9 percent.
Asia-Pacific, which includes the previously rapidly expanding China market, saw a decline of 9.7 percent in passenger numbers, also more than any other of the six world regions that IATA reports on separately.
Carriers in North America -- which includes the United States, Canada and Mexico -- saw a decline of 14.4 percent in cargo and 4.8 percent in passengers, the last, IATA said, reflecting the near-collapse of the investment banking sector.
Europe recorded an 11 percent slump in cargo and 3.4 percent in passengers as the major markets for its airlines -- intra-continental, the North Atlantic and Asia -- all sunk deeper into economic woes.
At the start of December, IATA forecast that industry losses in 2009 were likely to total some USD$2.5 billion, despite a boost from falling oil prices after the spike in the middle of 2008 which had hit carriers hard.
Commenting on the Tuesday figures, Bisignani did not suggest any revision of that prediction.
But he said the overall economic gloom reflected by the November statistics would carry over into the coming year. "The industry is back in intensive care. Improved efficiency everywhere will be the theme for 2009," he declared.

(Reuters)

And we'll be negotiating our first concessionary contract under these circumstances...
 
December 30, 2008 International airlines saw a huge 13.5 percent fall in cargo traffic in November and a drop of 4.6 percent in passengers as business shrank across the industry, the carriers' grouping IATA said on Tuesday.
The figures, reflecting what IATA has dubbed a "chronic crisis" with revenues tumbling and hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk, marked the sharpest declines since the months after the September 2001 attacks in the United States.
"The 13.5 percent drop in international cargo is shocking," said Giovanni Bisignani, Director General of the body, the International Air Transport Association which represents airlines operating 93 percent of cross-border flights.
"As air cargo handles 35 percent of the value of goods traded internationally, it clearly shows the rapid fall in global trade and the broadening impact of the economic slowdown," he declared.
"The industry is now shrinking by all measures."
Although airlines had cut flight numbers by 1 percent in November in anticipation of falling demand, the actual drop in passengers had left planes operating with nearly 27 percent of seats empty against only 24 percent in November 2007.
"We can expect deep losses in the fourth quarter," said Bisignani, who earlier this month forecast that total balance sheet deficits in 2008 of its some 230 members across the globe would reach USD$5 billion by the end of the year.
The November figures, issued from IATA's Geneva headquarters, showed airlines in the Asia-Pacific area -- which accounts for nearly 45 percent of global air freight -- seeing the largest regional cargo traffic drop, a whopping 16.9 percent.
Asia-Pacific, which includes the previously rapidly expanding China market, saw a decline of 9.7 percent in passenger numbers, also more than any other of the six world regions that IATA reports on separately.
Carriers in North America -- which includes the United States, Canada and Mexico -- saw a decline of 14.4 percent in cargo and 4.8 percent in passengers, the last, IATA said, reflecting the near-collapse of the investment banking sector.
Europe recorded an 11 percent slump in cargo and 3.4 percent in passengers as the major markets for its airlines -- intra-continental, the North Atlantic and Asia -- all sunk deeper into economic woes.
At the start of December, IATA forecast that industry losses in 2009 were likely to total some USD$2.5 billion, despite a boost from falling oil prices after the spike in the middle of 2008 which had hit carriers hard.
Commenting on the Tuesday figures, Bisignani did not suggest any revision of that prediction.
But he said the overall economic gloom reflected by the November statistics would carry over into the coming year. "The industry is back in intensive care. Improved efficiency everywhere will be the theme for 2009," he declared.

(Reuters)

And we'll be negotiating our first concessionary contract under these circumstances...

You are of course, assuming we didn't make money in 2008 ...

And disregarding the fact that many think we are already under a concessionary contract.
 
Unless we hit a homerun in the fourth quarter, I'd say we're looking at a loss for the year...

Ahhh, you ain't seen concessionary yet, my friend...

I do know this much, nothing will move in the right direction until the vote is done. I look around, not just at the airline industry, but my neighborhood and I'm finding some gloomy outlook as people struggle with layoffs, plunging retirement savings and pensions in jeopardy-- to name a few; the confidence of the American spender, is to NOT in the coming future.

If the load factors around the holidays are a preview (I flew some flights with 30 people on board) of things to come in 2009, hold on tight. In the 8 years I've been here, we had fuller planes around the holidays after 9/11 than we did this past season with our reduction in capacity-- If the union does get voted in, we're not going to have any kind of bargaining power at all if the economy continues in this recession. So if you ask me, the timing is way, way off!
 
Ahhh, you ain't seen concessionary yet, my friend...



If the load factors around the holidays are a preview (I flew some flights with 30 people on board) !

Company states 83 hour lines during compensation talks but only has 74 hr bid divisors... I'd say that was concessionary.

30 pax... Calling BS on this one!

I flew 3 days including xmas, every plane had a 96% load factor or better except one.

Thanks for the Boogie Man story though! Can I tell that one at the next camp fire!? "As I look around the street.... 911, pensions, spending, blablabla".
 
Airline analyst sees strong airline profits in 2009

8:57 AM Mon, Nov 03, 2008 | Permalink
Terry Maxon E-mail News tips
In a report Monday, airline analyst Michael Derchin of FTN Midwest Securities said Monday he sees next year shaping up to be a good one for airlines:
We are currently forecasting that 2009 will be a strong profit year for the airlines despite the recession. Our $5 billion net income forecast assumes $80 oil, 8-9% RASM [revenue per available seat mile] growth, and domestic capacity down 8-9%. In fact, the airline industry is poised to report a small net profit in 4Q08.
Under that scenario, Mr. Derchin estimated that AMR/American Airlines would have 2009 net income of $1.197 billion, followed by Delta at $1.140 billion. He has a separate estimate of $709 million [corrected] for Northwest. Put together, Delta/Northwest are projected at $1.849 billion.


» Continue reading: Airline analyst sees strong airline profits in 2009
 

Craig Hoskins’ message to JB pilots on Union drive. Sure for all Radical True Union Believers this is just management propaganda. However, the issues and questions he raises are real how about some answers from JBPA instead of empty promises to solve all our problems. So fire away, here it goes:

“Obviously, the big event coming up that’s on everyone’s mind is the union election. The National Mediation Board will mail out voter instructions on January 6, and the voting period is between January 6 and February 3. I’d like to take a moment to clarify some huge misconceptions that are out there – I respect your right to choose representation, but you need to have the right information to make an informed choice, and I’m afraid there is a campaign afoot to spread wrong information.

First – IF a union is voted in, everything about your current working agreement is negotiable. There is no guarantee that the company will begin first contract negotiations from a position of status quo – and there’s no obligation to do so.

Second Negotiating a first contract is traditionally a pretty expensive thing to do. How does JBPA propose to pay for that? Also – running committees is pretty expensive, too, and if a union is voted in, that cost is borne by the union. Today, we spend around $1 million a year to run committees, and that number was projected to go up with the permanent working committee structure. If JBPA is voted in, JBPA pays for those committees. How much in dues does JBPA have to collect to support these committees? It may not be so much of a question about dues – you’re choosing to either hire a representative or not, so you know it’s going to cost you money if you choose JBPA. I’m raising this issue because there seems to be an unsophisticated appreciation for what it takes to run a union among certain people. If your union doesn’t know what it takes, you have no idea how much it will really cost you individually.

And finally – there remains an assumption that if the union doesn’t work out, then JetBlue Pilots can simply return to non-union status. This is the one of the most significant inaccuracies. If JBPA is voted in, and at some point in the future you feel it’s not working out, you really don’t have a lot of choices. The National Mediation Board does not have a “decertification” process per se. Historically speaking, once a union is on the property, it or something like it is here to stay."




I agree with BC. Please check the CBB about posting internal memo's on a public site.

Also, if you fly for JetBlue and your screen name is bluesideup, wouldn't that make you upside down?
 
Why not post it? Are you guys all company toadies?

This is right out of the script from "confessions of a union-buster", even the talking points are the same.

There is a long (long!) history of decertification of unions, it happens most often when there is a strike and enough workers cross the line to work at the company that the union members are no longer the majority.

At that point, the company calls for a vote, claiming to the NLRB (I know, this happens in non-RLA a lot more than in RLA companies) that the workers are clearly no longer represented by the union, since all of the guys on the line are now strikebreakers.

The NLRB then runs another election and what's funny is that the scabs often vote for the union!

So that was a bit of an untruth about no process for decertification. The truth part is that no airline employees have every gone non-union once they're unionized.

Why do you suppose that is?
 
If you guys think Dave and Russ are looking out for you guys then why is Jetblue a member of the Airline Industrial Relations Conference? This organizations is around for the sole purpose of driving wages/benefits down. They are some of the best puppet masters I have seen in a long time. I worked at Jetblue for awhile and I know how they really dish out the blue Koolade. Your pay and benefits stink and although I am not sure a union will be able to fix things or even make them better, I think you will be in a better position with one. Right now the fox is watching the hen house. Managements at all the airlines want to keep wages where they are or drive them lower. They have been successful at creating a lower expectation for our services. You are going to have to fight for anything. Dave/David had the chance to offer more but "blew" it. I don't see them fixing things unless forced too. Check out this website if you think they care about you.

http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm
 
If you guys think Dave and Russ are looking out for you guys then why is Jetblue a member of the Airline Industrial Relations Conference? This organizations is around for the sole purpose of driving wages/benefits down. They are some of the best puppet masters I have seen in a long time. I worked at Jetblue for awhile and I know how they really dish out the blue Koolade. Your pay and benefits stink and although I am not sure a union will be able to fix things or even make them better, I think you will be in a better position with one. Right now the fox is watching the hen house. Managements at all the airlines want to keep wages where they are or drive them lower. They have been successful at creating a lower expectation for our services. You are going to have to fight for anything. Dave/David had the chance to offer more but "blew" it. I don't see them fixing things unless forced too. Check out this website if you think they care about you.

http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm

That website simply debunks the mantra "ignorance is bliss"....

Check out this page of the website...

http://www.aircon.org/additonal_info/aviation.htm
 
Why not post it? Are you guys all company toadies?

I don't agree with my CP, radar. But we have a document at JB that pretty much prohibits posting company internals. BTW -- it's a document that most pilots never read, despite the fact that it is one of the three parts of our "contract".

'Nuff said.
 
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If you guys think Dave and Russ are looking out for you guys then why is Jetblue a member of the Airline Industrial Relations Conference? This organizations is around for the sole purpose of driving wages/benefits down. They are some of the best puppet masters I have seen in a long time. I worked at Jetblue for awhile and I know how they really dish out the blue Koolade. Your pay and benefits stink and although I am not sure a union will be able to fix things or even make them better, I think you will be in a better position with one. Right now the fox is watching the hen house. Managements at all the airlines want to keep wages where they are or drive them lower. They have been successful at creating a lower expectation for our services. You are going to have to fight for anything. Dave/David had the chance to offer more but "blew" it. I don't see them fixing things unless forced too. Check out this website if you think they care about you.

http://www.aircon.org/what_is_aircon/index.htm

Pretty ironic. JB, the "company" is in a union, but JB, the pilots are not.

Oh yeah -- you never actually "worked" at JB, Mamma.
 
Mamma,

I don't think flying to NY, having a slice at Danny's pizza and drinkin in the Kew counts as working?
 
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