NJ Recalls

[OPECJet]

Some think that unions are powerful enough to force managment into bad decisions. Many BK companies out there that used to be union.

From wsj 2009 (Cliff notes version) In 1994 the UAW pushed GM into a deal it knew it could most likely not fulfill. It gave unlimited medical and COLA to retirees. GM knew a lengthy strike might drive them into BK. They had exhausted the equity markets, and borrowing was the only solution. Much like living off your credit cards. So they bet on maybe things would work, but they knew in the end they were in trouble. The power of a potential union strike drove them to make a bad management decision.

As they lost market share to foreign rivals, Detroit's auto makers and the UAW lost the power to set standards on labor costs. Yet during the prosperous 1990s, they seemed reluctant to accept the fact that their business model -- with its expensive defined-benefit health and pension programs -- was driving the domestic industry toward ruin. The UAW and its biggest employer have effectively conceded that their golden age of dominance is over.

GM executives consistently acknowledged that it couldn't be competitive in North America without a fundamental change in its labor-cost structure.

The UAW got a harsh lesson in the consequences of bankruptcy proceedings when former GM parts unit Delphi Corp. sought Chapter 11 protection in 2005, and pushed through substantial job and wage cuts under a deal subsidized by GM.

GM's obligation to provide health care for 412,356 union members, retirees and surviving spouses lies at the heart of yesterday's agreement. Even after a partial overhaul of retiree health-care benefits in 2005, GM still faced a $51 billion obligation to UAW members. Health-care obligations added more than $1,900 to the cost of every GM vehicle sold in the U.S. in 2006, a heavy burden given that many GM vehicles sold for less than competing Toyota vehicles.

Yip, you know as I do that the airlines are not going to be put into a GM like scenario through employee bargaining. There are too many differences the workforce and laws regulating such.

 

[OPECJet]

BTW. Was there a second email from the NJASAP president we furloughed folks might not have been privy to regarding recalls and rhetoric thereof?

Disregard....

 

[Pervis]

So often we see attempts to compare us to a totally unrelated industry. We are governed by the RLA which prevents us from any illegal work action and prevents any form of strike until released to do so. The UAW is a completely different kind of union.

Additionally, even considering the so called pro labor president, does anyone really believe he would allow us to strike when one of his biggest contributors owns the company? We get what we negotiate, and based upon the limits we live by, there is no way we could pull a GM type scenario.

 

[gutshotdraw]

BTW. Was there a second email from the NJASAP president we furloughed folks might not have been privy to regarding recalls and rhetoric thereof?

Not as far as I know. But these days, I don't think any of us are quite sure what's going on.

There's been SOME communication from SOME of the new board members but it seems like this President is much like the last: "Sit down, shut up, pay your dues and I'll TELL you what's good for you and this union." Only he says it in a nicer way....

 

[OPECJet]

Not as far as I know. But these days, I don't think any of us are quite sure what's going on.

There's been SOME communication from SOME of the new board members but it seems like this President is much like the last: "Sit down, shut up, pay your dues and I'll TELL you what's good for you and this union." Only he says it in a nicer way....

I got some bad intel from a friend still there. He sent me the email and the only thing I can figure is he read it while getting a lap dance from a fur wearing mammal and through beer goggles at the same time.

Understood on the lack of comms coming from NJASAP. Quite a few of us got p/o'ed and wrote the prez, no response. Two weeks later, out pops that email.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip, you know as I do that the airlines are not going to be put into a GM like scenario through employee bargaining. There are too many differences the workforce and laws regulating such.

What about UAL, DAL, USA, NWA where the companies went into BK because they had contracts they could not afford and no flexibility to fix the situation outside of BK?

 

[jetlag7]

What about UAL, DAL, USA, NWA where the companies went into BK because they had contracts they could not afford and no flexibility to fix the situation outside of BK?

That was more a function of fuel prices shooting through the roof than employee contracts.

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

What about UAL, DAL, USA, NWA where the companies went into BK because they had contracts they could not afford and no flexibility to fix the situation outside of BK?

Yield management, 9/11 and fuel prices had more to do with recent legacy BK than labor contracts. In the case of AMR, the APA agreed to significant concessions to help the ailing carrier and we all know how well that strategy worked out.

 

[gunfyter]

Yield management, 9/11 and fuel prices had more to do with recent legacy BK than labor contracts. In the case of AMR, the APA agreed to significant concessions to help the ailing carrier and we all know how well that strategy worked out.

Weren't the losses for some of theses carriers greater than the entire payroll? So if everyone flew for free they still lost money?

How would a non union air force help that?

 

[pilotyip]

Yield management, 9/11 and fuel prices had more to do with recent legacy BK than labor contracts. In the case of AMR, the APA agreed to significant concessions to help the ailing carrier and we all know how well that strategy worked out.

Not so much oil $25/brl 2000, $30/brl 2002. Airlines like GM were forced into contracts they knew they could not sustain. The first class passenger that was the back bone of their profit had been replaced by the internet price shopper. They are at the mercy of the purchasing public, who with Internet access has made the airline ticket a perfectly elastic commodity.