NJ Recalls

[BuckMurdock1]

Posted it on the NJASAP furloughed page. Can you get on there?

Well..no. We aren't furloughed in the eyes of NJASAP & NJA-- we are 'former employees'. All access to anything was shut down as soon as NJA received the bullsh*t forced resignation letters.

Like I said; either you can PM me and I could disseminate advisory info privately (not like I'm gonna say OPECJET told me), or strongly suggest to NJASAP to get in front of this issue before they get slapped with totally unnecessary legal fees. All they have to do is what's right. If some clandestine "work around" is the best they've got...I'm sure most guys will settle for that as long as it restores recall right/seniority.

Thanks...

 

[Xcorporate]

So your saying that while your were furloughed, a job was offered to you. This job required you to give up your seniority number at NJ in order to accept it. NJASAP said take the job we are confident that resignations won't be honored by the company. You took the job and they honored the resignations. Is this correct?

 

[BuckMurdock1]

So your saying that while your were furloughed, a job was offered to you. This job required you to give up your seniority number at NJ in order to accept it. NJASAP said take the job we are confident that resignations won't be honored by the company. You took the job and they honored the resignations. Is this correct?

I was lucky enough to get a job so soon after furlough that I didn't even get a chance to ask..and my new employer did not mention anything about a forced resignation letter until my 1st day of class. I've heard that subsequent guys who ended up in this situation were told by NJASAP that they will work with the company to disregard resignation letters. This obviously did not happen.

Guys-- this kind of scenario is "table stakes" at any unionized carrier. It is and has been understood by ALPA, teamsters, etc jointly with the respective managment.. that the only way a furloughee loses his recall status is literally if he dies. At my company alone--I have seen scores of Delta, United, American pilots return when recalled (despite the forced resignation letter). It's so commonplace and accepted as industry norm, that I'm actually surprised any of these sh*tbag employers even bother to have a newhire sign a forced resignation..as they are NEVER honored. -----Except at NJA apparently---
This is why I suspect that if it comes to litigation, there will be a lot of industry/CBA precedent and perhaps some evidence of "malpractice" on the part of NJASAP. (the fact that something as basic as this was overlooked and not addressed)

 

[DC-4]

Malpractice on the part of NJASAP were do I begin. Anyone who thinks that NJASAP has supported the furloughed is wrong. Its been so bad and the refund dues thrown in our face so many times that many furloughed have wanted to pay the money back to the union just so they cannot say it anymore. There is no unity with respect to NJASAP and the furloughed.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I was lucky enough to get a job so soon after furlough that I didn't even get a chance to ask..and my new employer did not mention anything about a forced resignation letter until my 1st day of class. I've heard that subsequent guys who ended up in this situation were told by NJASAP that they will work with the company to disregard resignation letters. This obviously did not happen.

Guys-- this kind of scenario is "table stakes" at any unionized carrier. It is and has been understood by ALPA, teamsters, etc jointly with the respective managment.. that the only way a furloughee loses his recall status is literally if he dies. At my company alone--I have seen scores of Delta, United, American pilots return when recalled (despite the forced resignation letter). It's so commonplace and accepted as industry norm, that I'm actually surprised any of these sh*tbag employers even bother to have a newhire sign a forced resignation..as they are NEVER honored. -----Except at NJA apparently---
This is why I suspect that if it comes to litigation, there will be a lot of industry/CBA precedent and perhaps some evidence of "malpractice" on the part of NJASAP. (the fact that something as basic as this was overlooked and not addressed)

Two questions.

How do you know for sure until recalls at NJ begin? It's quite possible that the "workaround" can't be implemented until recalls start.

Why on earth would you want to come back? I still don't get why a junior guy (or girl) would come back staring at crappy morale, out of control union politics, a protracted contract fight, and a 10-15 year upgrade when there are lots of jobs starting to open up across the industry.

Serious questions.

 

[Xcorporate]

Serious answer is a lot of us are still un/underemployed. I work with guys that tell me daily what a dumb move it was going to Netjets and they they saw this coming from day one. No kidding. Many of us can't get an interview due to having Netjets on our resume, as they are sure we will return OR they hate netjets for trying to take over 91 departments. A lot of good ole boy BS still exists out there and we don't have a chance. Many are getting better jobs, many are not.

I, for one, want my 401k matching and a choice to return or not.

 

[imacdog]

Two questions.

How do you know for sure until recalls at NJ begin? It's quite possible that the "workaround" can't be implemented until recalls start.

Why on earth would you want to come back? I still don't get why a junior guy (or girl) would come back staring at crappy morale, out of control union politics, a protracted contract fight, and a 10-15 year upgrade when there are lots of jobs starting to open up across the industry.

Serious questions.

Probably because one just can't snap their fingers and be picked up by a Fortune 100 department or a legacy, and that NJA is a much better deal than their current situation. Seriously, are you that out of touch with the industry that you can't answer your own question?

 

[gret]

Serious answer is a lot of us are still un/underemployed. I work with guys that tell me daily what a dumb move it was going to Netjets and they they saw this coming from day one. No kidding. Many of us can't get an interview due to having Netjets on our resume, as they are sure we will return OR they hate netjets for trying to take over 91 departments. A lot of good ole boy BS still exists out there and we don't have a chance. Many are getting better jobs, many are not.

I, for one, want my 401k matching and a choice to return or not.

Sorry to hear you are caught up in something that the vast majority of NJ pilots have nothing to do with, except have to live with the consequences of the reputation that has been perpetuated by a few bad apples.

The twerps that spout off about how great they are, and how they walk on water and deserve to be paid above market compensation, only contribute to the resentment that is shared by non-NJ pilots, flight departments, and employers. People do read what is posted and draw their own conclusions from what a few nuts say. Not right, but true.

Again, not fair to the many great people that have worked at NJ, but we would normally place a NJ resume at the bottom of the pile because you simply didn't know what you were hiring...a nutty union fanatic or a basket ego case. Wasn't worth the risk.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Why on earth would you want to come back?

My answer is same as XCorporate's:

I, for one, want my 401k matching and a choice to return or not.

If called right now, I wouldn't return (since I was at very bottom of list..it'll be a while anyway). I probably wouldn't go back unless my current airline sh*ts the bed. I, and my fellow affected furloughees, want our recall/seniority status restored primarily out of principle & to have "backup" options. Like XCorporate said, though, many of these guys had to settle for working at a real sh*thole operation to keep a roof over their head and NJA -even in its present state- is still a better alternative. I know a few who are in this situation.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Two questions.

How do you know for sure until recalls at NJ begin? It's quite possible that the "workaround" can't be implemented until recalls start.

Why on earth would you want to come back? I still don't get why a junior guy (or girl) would come back staring at crappy morale, out of control union politics, a protracted contract fight, and a 10-15 year upgrade when there are lots of jobs starting to open up across the industry.

Serious questions.[/QUOTE
All those extended days have clouded your judgment. You tear into the union any chance you get for being out of touch, yet from your G perch you ask a ridiculous question like that. A dose of reality might do you some good.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Av8, I think you're probably the one out of touch.

I don't extend.

The union IS a mess.

And neither question is "ridiculous." Especially the first question which nobody has seen fit to answer yet. How do you KNOW the "resignation" is final until recalls start?

Meanwhile, I get there are furloughed guys that want the option. I get that some are still un or underemployed and it's the best option available for them. But the resentment, anger and bitterness toward the company, the union, and fellow pilots by many of the furloughed on this board make a desire to return puzzling to me.

If you feel it's your only "out," by all means, come on back. It would mean things are getting better and the company's leverage has diminished. But forewarned is forearmed.

 

[imacdog]

Gut, since you're so bitter about the union and company, why are you still there? Or does your argument only apply to other people?

Oh, this question goes to the other 98.5% of NJA pilots who have not left in the last year.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gut, since you're so bitter about the union and company, why are you still there? Or does your argument only apply to other people?

Oh, this question goes to the other 98.5% of NJA pilots who have not left in the last year.

Internet Asberger's strikes again....

 

[imacdog]

It's a serious question. Why bag on those who would like to return, when you are happy enough to not leave? Or is the exposure of your double-standard enough for you to not want to answer?

 

[OPECJet]

The company holding my 401K hostage is another reason in coming back. I want my money.....