NJ Recalls

[amaineiac]

I get that some are still un or underemployed and it's the best option available for them.

Some? From the furloughed guys I keep in touch with, I only know of 1 that has a better job than NJA. A few guys that went 121 may or may not come back, depending how much longer the furlough is and where they stand on their current seniority list. I know too many that are out of aviation all together, and not by their choosing. Everyone of them plans on coming back. Everyone that I know that went to another charter company plans on coming back too.

I know the job isn't the same as when we left in 2010, but I think many of you guys don't realize how tough it's been the last 3 years to find a good flying job. Keep in mind, many of the 495 were guys that were hired when NJA was THE place to be, so it's not like we're a bunch of low timers that don't interview well.

 

[FLYLOW22]

So on a thread called "NJA Recall"....

Someone just arbitrarily writes something very very vague about November.. Other active guys make some comments, and in reality nothing has changed whatsoever... Awesome, you guys are really in the know!!

Yes!!!



I'm someone!!!!



Finally.

 

[pilotyip]

many of these guys had to settle for working at a real sh*thole operation to keep a roof over their head and NJA -even in its present state- is still a better alternative. I know a few who are in this situation.

For the four exNJ guys flying rubber dogsh!t out of YIP in the middle of the night a return to NJ will be like a trip paradise. It is still one of the best jobs out there.

 

[gutshotdraw]

It's a serious question. Why bag on those who would like to return, when you are happy enough to not leave? Or is the exposure of your double-standard enough for you to not want to answer?

How the hell am I "bagging" on the furloughed guys? I was asking a question of the guys that are apparently pissed at the union for the "resignation letter" issue. A question which STILL nobody has answered.

How do you KNOW your "resignation letter" is FINAL until a recall starts?

For those that had to write one for their current job that want to return when recalls begin, I hope there is a workaround that is possible. I also understand that some want to return because it's the best option for them. I'm not "bagging" on them by pointing out the reality of poor morale, out of control union politics, a protracted contract fight, and a decade long wait for upgrade. Those are the FACTS.

Because the union saw fit to exclude the furloughed pilots from the board (a decision that I DISAGREE with AND predates my membership in the union) I don't think a lot of the furloughed guys realize just how real the issues I mentioned are.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Some? From the furloughed guys I keep in touch with, I only know of 1 that has a better job than NJA. A few guys that went 121 may or may not come back, depending how much longer the furlough is and where they stand on their current seniority list. I know too many that are out of aviation all together, and not by their choosing. Everyone of them plans on coming back. Everyone that I know that went to another charter company plans on coming back too.

I know the job isn't the same as when we left in 2010, but I think many of you guys don't realize how tough it's been the last 3 years to find a good flying job. Keep in mind, many of the 495 were guys that were hired when NJA was THE place to be, so it's not like we're a bunch of low timers that don't interview well.

Maybe this is the source of the "disconnect."

More than 40 pilots in my fleet were furloughed and most of the guys I know have not only found flying jobs, several of them are really good jobs and few intend to return.

In the last year, half a dozen active pilots in my fleet have left for other jobs including a couple of VERY senior guys.

Sorry to hear that the job prospects for pilots from the other fleets have been so dismal. As I pointed out earlier, if a recall occurs it means good things all around: a return to the job for those that want or need to come back and diminished leverage for the company during the Section 6 negotiations.

 

[BentOver]

Gut, if by your fleet you mean a Gulfstream, then yes those jobs have been easier to come by. And most Gulfstream operators, especially Fortune 500 companies, are typically pretty good outfits.

Not the same can be said for a lot of 135 operators with a couple Beechjets or Excels etc... Some may be decent jobs, but not many are career jobs...


As far as the resignation thing.... Almost faster than one can say "furlough" any access to NJASAP was discontinued. And resignees were taken off of the seniority list. And NJASAP communication immediately stopped. No pamphlets, emails..nothing...

I resigned knowing I didn't want to return as I am one of the few that found a better job than NJa for the most part. But I do still keep tabs on NJA and feel those that do wish to return ( especially those that resigned) have faced some push back from their own union regarding a lot of what many airlines would consider " standard practice"... ( MSG brds, resignation letter, attitude towards us from former NJASAP leadership)....or is Timko and Rimon still in leadership?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gut, if by your fleet you mean a Gulfstream, then yes those jobs have been easier to come by. And most Gulfstream operators, especially Fortune 500 companies, are typically pretty good outfits.

Not the same can be said for a lot of 135 operators with a couple Beechjets or Excels etc... Some may be decent jobs, but not many are career jobs...


As far as the resignation thing.... Almost faster than one can say "furlough" any access to NJASAP was discontinued. And resignees were taken off of the seniority list. And NJASAP communication immediately stopped. No pamphlets, emails..nothing...

I resigned knowing I didn't want to return as I am one of the few that found a better job than NJa for the most part. But I do still keep tabs on NJA and feel those that do wish to return ( especially those that resigned) have faced some push back from their own union regarding a lot of what many airlines would consider " standard practice"... ( MSG brds, resignation letter, attitude towards us from former NJASAP leadership)....or is Timko and Rimon still in leadership?

Glad you found a better job. There are a few put there. Admittedly, a Gulfstream rating and some international experience open a few more doors.

I was unaware that NJASAP completely pulled the plug on anybody that submitted a letter. To be fair, I don't know if that decision was driven by the company or the union. Regardless, I hope that could change if and when recalls begin. My point is, we won't KNOW until then.

And I've already pointed out that I DISAGREE with the decision to cut off message board access to furloughed pilots. Of course, at the time of the furlough, our fleet didn't have message board access either.

As to your last question.....ah....must be careful here...

NO.

 

[brokeflyer]

What you do is write the resignation letter, show it to your current employer but don't send it to nja.

 

[imacdog]

Read your own words again Gut and tell me you aren't bagging on those who wish to come back.

Why on earth would you want to come back? I still don't get why a junior guy (or girl) would come back staring at crappy morale, out of control union politics, a protracted contract fight, and a 10-15 year upgrade when there are lots of jobs starting to open up across the industry.

Serious questions.

 

[imacdog]

Maybe this is the source of the "disconnect."

More than 40 pilots in my fleet were furloughed and most of the guys I know have not only found flying jobs, several of them are really good jobs and few intend to return.

In the last year, half a dozen active pilots in my fleet have left for other jobs including a couple of VERY senior guys.

Sorry to hear that the job prospects for pilots from the other fleets have been so dismal. As I pointed out earlier, if a recall occurs it means good things all around: a return to the job for those that want or need to come back and diminished leverage for the company during the Section 6 negotiations.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe having the G experience had anything to do with your buddies finding decent jobs? You really are out of touch with the industry, Gut. Let's just say that from your cush G steady employment, you have no business questioning why others would want to return.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I worked my ass off to get my "cush" G steady employment mac n cheese. Just like many others in this industry. It wasn't luck.

HOW is it "bagging" on people to ask a legitimate question of why a furloughed guy why they would want to return to a less-than-ideal situation when other opportunities ARE out there? They answered that they had a tough time finding something decent given their situation and that returning was the best thing for THEM. Fair enough. It doesn't mean I'm bagging on them. It means I'm asking a QUESTION.

I asked ANOTHER question that only ONE person answered but you choose to deflect from that. Over. And over. And over again.

But I WILL bag on you. I'm GLAD you're not around our little travelling minstrel show. Corrosive people like you are one of the reasons WHY morale is in the toilet these days.

Happy trails.

 

[Xcorporate]

I didn't see it as "bagging" (whatever that means). His perspective was that many of the folks in his circle did OK with the furlough. Surely that was due to the fleet he's in.

The reality is that most guys have done very badly during this time. The company has zero communication with us, and union seems interested in only separating from active guys and not getting sued. I've lost a lot of respect for the company and the union but not my fellow pilots, active or furloughed. I've been told to expect recalls some time this fall and I've been told it will be years. Best I can do is keep flying, stay current and hope the mail man drops off good news soon. Hopefully I will find something better but it's not looking good.

 

[imacdog]

I'm not interested in answering your question about some supposed workaround because as far as I'm concerned, the company has honored those resignation letters and that's the end of it. I'm not the one who brought it up and I don't care, so no, I'm not deflecting anything. The issue I have is with you who doesn't seem to understand how out of touch with reality one can be when they question why folks would want to come back to NetJets. Speaking of deflecting though, you haven't answered my question as to if you feel it's so bad there right now, why haven't you left? Why is attrition at 1.5%? That's not Internet Asperger's, that's a direct question that you actively deflected.

 

[billybob]

gut,
I will go back....
i have 4-5K TT and I was an IP/check airman for a few years. 1500 TPIC with a few small/mid sized types.

I WORKED and WAS FURLOUGHED from NJA after nothing but great service for 3+ years not a ding on my file to be found.

I lost count of the amount of apps I sent out

I lost count of the amount of times I never even got a TBNT

I can tell you that when I had friends on the inside that the ONE thing that stopped me from a new job each time was that I worked at NJA.

For the most part I would guess that 300-400 of us have found jobs. They suck! They pay the bills and that is it. 45 to 60K I bet.

the thing that keeps us back "You worked for NJA"

So yes, 80-100K with some extras for a guy like me is a dream!!!
I will take a fight and some unhappy people to be around, cus guess what? I have that now and I make half what I would at NJA.

 

[Jack Mehoff]

How could any furlough go back to NetJerks and sit next to some dilRod that profited off their misfortune? Do any furloughed pilots have any respect for NJASAP after the snub job we all got?

I resigned and am beyond happy to be done with that recall pipe dream. Best of luck to the rest of the Forgotten 495. We were forgotten too, I can't tell you how many crews in FBO's either "forgot" or didn't care guys are on furlough after they talked about how much OT and extended days they were flying. Or the line of "Its not wrong to pick up extra flying with guys on furlough. That's an airline thing, not a NetJets thing." and "You guys never had any business being at NJA in the first place. You were not pre 05.."