New SkyWest pay proposal....anyone?

[Terrain Terrain]

You must be a 50-seat only guy.

The offered rates from ASA do cover 700/900 flying. It's amazing to see how smug some of you guys are about what is happening. My point was to point out that the offer on the table from ASA management, is actually an offer from Jerry to ASA pilots. Point being, the same people that control your half of the equation are offering you less than what they are offering our half.

Believe it or not, I'd like to see our 2 groups help eachother out.

Well heads up, enter the mothership padwan. I really dont know a "50-seat only guy" just depends on base flying. In my base its mostly 70 seats. I also would like to get together with you guys, but there is the great divide as far as I see it. I have a feeling that you guys are coming from a down and out situation, and have very negative feelings about MNGT/thiswholeairlinedeal. I am not a cool-aid pounder, but am very happy to go to work and go home, I think that alpa instills hate towards MNGT to prolong their survival. But anyhow, I hope we can get together and no one gets too screwed!

 

[Shrek]

WOW...........I guess the divide and conquer tactics are working.

United we stand - divided we fall........the sad part about it was a comment I read earlier in the thread about in 4 years I am outta here anyways.

Shortsighted and selfish to "get yours" and scr** the fellow pilots behind you. No payraises for the hardest working (and probably the most profficient) pilots in your group. Sounds like a litmus test to me - to gauge how cheap the pilot group will go to keep ANY union off the property. Don't buy it......stand with your ASA pilots and make it better for EVERY pilot on the property.

Vote when the time comes. And on a sidenote to personally thank Skywest for employing a lot of our pilots that were on furlough.

To stave off comments from Skywest pilots that may say "mind your own business" and it "doesn't concern you" is also a WEAK argument. It affects ALL of us sooner or later Union or not. The industry is watching you now and Mesa as well with their upcoming contract negotiations. Stop the race and turn it the other way..........

Fly safe........

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Well heads up, enter the mothership padwan. I really dont know a "50-seat only guy" just depends on base flying. In my base its mostly 70 seats. I also would like to get together with you guys, but there is the great divide as far as I see it. I have a feeling that you guys are coming from a down and out situation, and have very negative feelings about MNGT/thiswholeairlinedeal. I am not a cool-aid pounder, but am very happy to go to work and go home, I think that alpa instills hate towards MNGT to prolong their survival. But anyhow, I hope we can get together and no one gets to screwed!

I can't speak for all 1700 or so pilots at ASA, but I will speak for myself. I don't think the SKW and ASA pilots will get "together", but we can share information with one another to help our situations. As crazy as it is sounds, flightinfo is the only place where I have been able to interact with SKW pilots. So here I am.

My point about the 700/900 pay comparison is to let you guys know, that what is being offered to you right now, is less than what was offered and agreed to by us and management back in 2002. The tough thing for ASA pilots is that the company wants us to freeze our 700/900 pay for 2 years, on an agreement that is already 4 years old. Throw in cost of living increases over the years and into the future, and it ends up being a paycut.

What I would like to see happen is for SKW pilots to say to managemnt is, "Hey, these rates are less than ASA's current rates which are already 4 years old."

Being able to split your rates is obviously a step in the right direction, and I will not let that go unnoticed. Credit should be given where it is due in that respect, I just think more should be given to you guys.

SKW has been making millions in profits over the years, and they can't even make an offer to you that keeps up with inflation! End result is you are making less money than you did the year before.

As far as being anti management. That is not true. Look at the ASA pilots as being anti-ineffective management. We have alot of respect for what Jerry has created in SKW, and wish we could be a part of a succesful and respected airline. Unfortunately, our ontime performance, mishandled bags, and customer complaints are pretty much the worst in the industry every single month. The local Atlanta newspaper, the Atlanta Journal Constitution just ripped our company a new one last week, and deservidly so.

Anyway, the whole reason I wrote on this thread was to point out to you guys what some of these rates look like compared to what is going on across the hall from you.

 

[s.o.sJTB]

I'm not sure what some of you guys are looking at but from this year to next with the pay proposal my rate would increase over $8 bucks an hour and with the bonus factor we are quite a bit over ASA.

End date, split rates, increase, to me are all an improvement.
I'm voting yes.

how do you get an $8 per hr increase from this year to the next????

our current scale tops out at $98 pr hr. 5% in 2007 is $4.70 pr hour and in 2010 it is 8% more than now for a total of...$7.76

And that is only for the 700/900 the 2000 and Bro's will be the same for 10 years! I wish milk and gas cost the same in ten years

DONT LET THE FUZZY MATH FOOL YOU!!!!

 

[aero]

wow 7 pages in less than a day. The new pay offer is probably slightly over the 1.2 across the board they offered awhile ago. meaning 1% for the 200 nothing for bro and the 700/900 pay increase = in my mind a little over 1.2% across the board but its a step in the right direction. This board shows how bad everything sucks in this industry and how personal alot of people take it. I think this is a fair advance for SKYw pilots. Its not perfect but with whats going on right now with all the other regionals i will take it. I sucks to be at a place thats dieing been there and you dont have a leg to stand on its simply bad f luck. the comair of 4 or 5 years ago was the place to be and in the future could became that again but as far as a pilot position its just bad or good luck right place wrong time. We dont have the top pay but we dont have the worst pay (we do have very competitive work rules) and this airline does what it does meaning it bids on flying when the owner of that flying puts it up for bid. Which is how it pretty much works these days with very few and fortunate exceptions. All of you that cry we need to raise the bar youre only talking to the places that seem to be doing well well that would put that group in the same position youre in (just mean that by what mgnt seeems to bring to the bargaining table lately not actaully reality maybe) so what to do? Small increases in the right place like SKYw (meaning they dont have liquidation or shrinkage hanging over their head to force pay cuts) i feel is probably a good thing. What mngt did is give us as a pilot group what we wanted dif. pay (to a degree) and an end date to the agreament so whats the problem. Agree to what we asked for because thats what they gave us and then learn a little more about how it really works and make your next move a little more thoughtful. Its a step forward and not a step back. obviously this is not the time to take monster steps in pay. thats for later sonerious.
The only thing id like to see more (other than a 20% payraise and 3 months of vac. a year) is more talk of if ASA strikes in writting we "SKYw" pilots will not even be thought of as a way to cover that flying because i won't do it and would like some back up on that as far as mgnt. (slightly dif. from the flying mngt is taking from you now and giving us) anyway WHATEVER

 

[www.]

I think that alpa instills hate towards MNGT to prolong their survival.

After reading your posts I see your problem.

"I think"..

Keep negotiating with yourself. You'll finally see that you go backwards when you do.

 

[twott driver]

I'm not sure what some of you guys are looking at but from this year to next with the pay proposal my rate would increase over $8 bucks an hour and with the bonus factor we are quite a bit over ASA.

End date, split rates, increase, to me are all an improvement.
I'm voting yes.

VOTE YES!

And just wait and see what happens when you are suddenly way more expensive than ASA. Can you say "transfer of planes back to ASA"!

You guys need to start looking a little further than prospect of the left seat in 8 months. These things have a nasty way of turning around and biting you on the ass, especially when you're as smug as many SKYW pilots seem to be on this website.

But hey, knock yourselves out..........

 

[BigLebowski]

I am very dissapointed in what they offered the new hire FO's. That is just pathetic, and that unfortunately is what is pushing me towards a no. Unfortunately if we dont' vote yes...we're not going to get sh*t. And no, voting in ALPA is not going to help matters, they're not going to get us a payraise...so I thought I'd throw that out there before people started with the "well if you were ALPA". If ALPA was so good at getting good contracts how come every regional/major they represent now have lost just about everything?

As far as the bro...they're compensated pretty well for that aircraft.

 

[Shrek]

Aero.........you need to go back to school.

"sonerious"

 

[Smacktard]

...I think that alpa instills hate towards MNGT to prolong their survival.

Completely false. What instills hate is a management group that routinely takes advantage of all of its employees. The relationship has been an abusive one for over 20 years. It doesn't take long for the neophyte to see how poorly the moral in this place is fostered. It all comes from the top. You know the saying...

 

[Weasil]

how do you get an $8 per hr increase from this year to the next????

our current scale tops out at $98 pr hr. 5% in 2007 is $4.70 pr hour and in 2010 it is 8% more than now for a total of...$7.76

And that is only for the 700/900 the 2000 and Bro's will be the same for 10 years! I wish milk and gas cost the same in ten years

DONT LET THE FUZZY MATH FOOL YOU!!!!

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

 

[Peter Sashell]

One thing to remember is that when they can't fill new hire classes because the pay is so low they will have to raise it.Also, why is it that Skywest was wrong to vote in a combined rate, but now that we can get rid of it every one is saying don't do it.
I think we should take a page from the ALPA play book ( take what you can and fight another day)

 

[Stifler's Mom]

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

A 6th year Captain in 2004, will have made more than a 6th year Captain in 2006. The amount on the W2 may be the same, but because the cost of putting food on the table and gas in the car increases, you ultimately are making less money. Your dollar doesn't go as far as it used to in previous years.

That bump in pay from year to year is to reward employees for longevity at a company, not to offset the cost of everyday expenses.

 

[HA25]

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

3 years ago, my house sold for $319,000... today (even in the downturn), a similar model sold two weeks ago for $690,000.. same goes for double wide trailers, and million dollar McMansions..

3 years ago gas was $1.25/gal, now it's $2.25

3 years ago, rent in a shopping center was an average of $15/sf, now it's $25..

things have gotten quite a bit more expensive in the recent past..

Cost of living adjustments don't work anymore.. A senior Pilot that made $35,000/yr in 1980's flying a E-120 would be making $100,000 today..

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

For those of you with 'yes' votes already... I'm not disagreeing with you or even challenging you... but the 5% isn't really 5%... not quite. I haven't crunched all the numbers quite yet, but last night my FO and applied this override to our current trip and projected the numbers out for the month... Worked out to about 3% when you consider dead heads and min. daily guarantee issues... for him it worked out to about $80 pre-tax difference on second year pay. Those were rough numbers, but it did give me pause.

Taking it and getting representation might be the best solution... not saying it isn't, but it's definitely not even as good as it sounds on the 10 page packet...

Oh yeah, don't print it out on company computers or the 1% goes down even more, and the Bro guys/gals get a cut!!!!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

One thing to remember is that when they can't fill new hire classes because the pay is so low they will have to raise it.Also, why is it that Skywest was wrong to vote in a combined rate, but now that we can get rid of it every one is saying don't do it.
I think we should take a page from the ALPA play book ( take what you can and fight another day)

A little melodramatic don't you think? Can you go back and find where somebody said to keep the combined rate?

 

[Bluto]

I don't think anybody's arguing that this proposal is industry-leading. Clearly, no raise for the Bro is an insult. The raise offered is insufficient. Newhire pay is still atrocious.

However, having said all that. It does provide a differentiation for the 70 and 90. It does have an amendable date. It provides regular increases (for the 70 and 90) for the next few years. Perhaps most importantly, we really have no better option.

For those of you planning or advocating a "No" vote, take a hard look at what you hope to accomplish with this. What do you think's going to happen? A resounding no-vote will suddenly cause Brad to change his mind? I don't think so. Understanding the situation we are in, as far from ideal as this situation is, I think this package is probably our best option.

It doesn't address our representational problems, if anything, I think it highlights those short-comings. But, for now, this pay package and our ALPA drive are two seperate issues.

 

[ballsdeep123]

I don't think anybody's arguing that this proposal is industry-leading. Clearly, no raise for the Bro is an insult. The raise offered is insufficient. Newhire pay is still atrocious.

However, having said all that. It does provide a differentiation for the 70 and 90. It does have an amendable date. It provides regular increases (for the 70 and 90) for the next few years. Perhaps most importantly, we really have no better option.

For those of you planning or advocating a "No" vote, take a hard look at what you hope to accomplish with this. What do you think's going to happen? A resounding no-vote will suddenly cause Brad to change his mind? I don't think so. Understanding the situation we are in, as far from ideal as this situation is, I think this package is probably our best option.

It doesn't address our representational problems, if anything, I think it highlights those short-comings. But, for now, this pay package and our ALPA drive are two seperate issues.

Would you buy a car for sticker price? Probably not, so why would you take the first offer when it comes to pay? I'm not sure what it's like working for a carrier that doesn't have any representation, but you should never take the first offer when negotiating. It makes management think they should have offered less since you were so willing to jump on the first offer.

 

[Bluto]

VOTE YES!

And just wait and see what happens when you are suddenly way more expensive than ASA. Can you say "transfer of planes back to ASA"!

But hey, knock yourselves out..........

Can you say, "I have no idea what I'm talking about!" You really think our management, with absolutely no leverage applied to them, would offer rates that would make us less competetive? How stupid do you think they are? Your post makes absolutely zero sense. If you had any idea how "negotiations" at SkyWest work, you'd know there is no possible way for our pilots to get an unsustainably high raise. (There are those that will argue that there is no way we can get even a reasonable raise, either, but that's the other side of that coin.) We have zero threat to management, they hold all the cards, but somehow, in your fantasy world, we're going to pull a fast one that makes the company insolvent. Brilliant.

 

[Bluto]

Would you buy a car for sticker price? Probably not, so why would you take the first offer when it comes to pay? I'm not sure what it's like working for a carrier that doesn't have any representation, but you should never take the first offer when negotiating. It makes management think they should have offered less since you were so willing to jump on the first offer.

This is the only part of your post that really matters. You have no idea what it's like. You people advocating a no-vote have no idea how things work at SkyWest. We voted down our last pay proposal. Do you know what happened? Pay talks ended. Our management said, "Ok, you must be happy with what we have now. Thanks for playing." The thing people fail to understand is that we have zero leverage. Zero. None. If we voted tomorrow, 100% no-vote. NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. This isn't like the car dealership where you can go across the street and buy a Toyota instead. Our management knows that the people who can move on will, and the rest aren't going anywhere, at least not in numbers that make a difference to them. Pay negotiations are completely different here from a union carrier. I'm hesitant even to call them negotiations. Have I stated it clearly enough? Under our current representative structure, there's nothing we can do to effect change that they aren't willing to offer.

But hey, thanks for the 7th grade lesson in negotiation.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Would you buy a car for sticker price? Probably not, so why would you take the first offer when it comes to pay? I'm not sure what it's like working for a carrier that doesn't have any representation, but you should never take the first offer when negotiating. It makes management think they should have offered less since you were so willing to jump on the first offer.

This isnt the first offer its the second and its not much better than the first. It looks like the same measley 1.2% they offered last time. The only difference is the Bro drivers are being sacraficed to split the 70 and 90 seat rates.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Deep breath Bluto. In with the good, out with the bad.

I for one am glad to see you guys moving away from a combined rate. I know you guys have no leverage with management and will do what you guys think is best for you.

As an ASA pilot, we are all watching closely what happens with you for obvious reasons. I think whoever settles first will be the measuring stick for the other group.

The links I posted earlier I hoped would be used by your group to decide if your current offer is fair and reasonable.

I believe that even though we are run as separate carriers, our current situations have more effect on eachother than any other airline right now.

Best of luck with your decisions.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Deep breath Bluto. In with the good, out with the bad.

I for one am glad to see you guys moving away from a combined rate. I know you guys have no leverage with management and will do what you guys think is best for you.

As an ASA pilot, we are all watching closely what happens with you for obvious reasons. I think whoever settles first will be the measuring stick for the other group.

The links I posted earlier I hoped would be used by your group to decide if your current offer is fair and reasonable.

I believe that even though we are run as separate carriers, our current situations have more effect on eachother than any other airline right now.

Best of luck with your decisions.

Well from what it sounds like this thing is going to be voted in. Even though this proposal splits the rates ITS CRAP!

 

[ballsdeep123]

This is the only part of your post that really matters. You have no idea what it's like. You people advocating a no-vote have no idea how things work at SkyWest. We voted down our last pay proposal. Do you know what happened? Pay talks ended. Our management said, "Ok, you must be happy with what we have now. Thanks for playing." The thing people fail to understand is that we have zero leverage. Zero. None. If we voted tomorrow, 100% no-vote. NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. This isn't like the car dealership where you can go across the street and buy a Toyota instead. Our management knows that the people who can move on will, and the rest aren't going anywhere, at least not in numbers that make a difference to them. Pay negotiations are completely different here from a union carrier. I'm hesitant even to call them negotiations. Have I stated it clearly enough? Under our current representative structure, there's nothing we can do to effect change that they aren't willing to offer.

But hey, thanks for the 7th grade lesson in negotiation.

Take it easy buddy. I didn't mean to get your panties in a bundle.

It seems kind of weird that you realize that you have absolutely no leverage and yet the majority of your pilot group doesn't want any kind of representation because they don't want to pay 2% out of their pay. Good luck with you 1% raise that won't even cover the cost of living increases. Oh yeah and those are some really nice rates on the 900's. Great job!

 

[jeroom]

Those rates are pathetic

And that ASS in your avatar is demoniac...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

it's not a 'Bro'. it's an EMB-120 Brasilia. period. drives me nuts that guys who have 20 hrs in the airplane call it a 'Bro'.

i've never heard the airplane called a 'Bro' and i flew it for 3 years. flightinfo.com is the first and last place i've ever heard it. i can only hope it doesn't find its way into the vernacular.

Relax peaches. There's stew that refers to it as "The Brasildo".

 

[Gr82Aviate]

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

You must either be new to the industry, management, or just ignorant? Those increases you speak of are for longevity... in the past we always got a longevity increase, and a cost of living increase! This allowed a senior crewmember to make more than a junior one, and gave us an increase that was supposed to keep up with inflation. 9/11 was used as an excuse to get rid of our cost of living increases, so now the pay has been going backward for the last 6 years(unless by some chance you've managed to continue paying the same prices today that you did 6 years ago, which I really doubt)!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

You must either be new to the industry, management, or just ignorant? Those increases you speak of are for longevity... in the past we always got a longevity increase, and a cost of living increase! This allowed a senior crewmember to make more than a junior one, and gave us an increase that was supposed to keep up with inflation. 9/11 was used as an excuse to get rid of our cost of living increases, so now the pay has been going backward for the last 6 years(unless by some chance you've managed to continue paying the same prices today that you did 6 years ago, which I really doubt)!

So put that 737 rating to good use. Loser!

 

[ILOVEBEER]

PM me your email address and I will send you the pay package file.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

This isnt the first offer its the second and its not much better than the first. It looks like the same measley 1.2% they offered last time. The only difference is the Bro drivers are being sacraficed to split the 70 and 90 seat rates.

So are the 50 seat drivers, and combined with the Bro drivers that's the majority of the pilot group! This is a really pathetic offer!!