New SkyWest pay proposal....anyone?

[Weasil]

how do you get an $8 per hr increase from this year to the next????

our current scale tops out at $98 pr hr. 5% in 2007 is $4.70 pr hour and in 2010 it is 8% more than now for a total of...$7.76

And that is only for the 700/900 the 2000 and Bro's will be the same for 10 years! I wish milk and gas cost the same in ten years

DONT LET THE FUZZY MATH FOOL YOU!!!!

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

 

[Peter Sashell]

One thing to remember is that when they can't fill new hire classes because the pay is so low they will have to raise it.Also, why is it that Skywest was wrong to vote in a combined rate, but now that we can get rid of it every one is saying don't do it.
I think we should take a page from the ALPA play book ( take what you can and fight another day)

 

[Stifler's Mom]

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

A 6th year Captain in 2004, will have made more than a 6th year Captain in 2006. The amount on the W2 may be the same, but because the cost of putting food on the table and gas in the car increases, you ultimately are making less money. Your dollar doesn't go as far as it used to in previous years.

That bump in pay from year to year is to reward employees for longevity at a company, not to offset the cost of everyday expenses.

 

[HA25]

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

3 years ago, my house sold for $319,000... today (even in the downturn), a similar model sold two weeks ago for $690,000.. same goes for double wide trailers, and million dollar McMansions..

3 years ago gas was $1.25/gal, now it's $2.25

3 years ago, rent in a shopping center was an average of $15/sf, now it's $25..

things have gotten quite a bit more expensive in the recent past..

Cost of living adjustments don't work anymore.. A senior Pilot that made $35,000/yr in 1980's flying a E-120 would be making $100,000 today..

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

For those of you with 'yes' votes already... I'm not disagreeing with you or even challenging you... but the 5% isn't really 5%... not quite. I haven't crunched all the numbers quite yet, but last night my FO and applied this override to our current trip and projected the numbers out for the month... Worked out to about 3% when you consider dead heads and min. daily guarantee issues... for him it worked out to about $80 pre-tax difference on second year pay. Those were rough numbers, but it did give me pause.

Taking it and getting representation might be the best solution... not saying it isn't, but it's definitely not even as good as it sounds on the 10 page packet...

Oh yeah, don't print it out on company computers or the 1% goes down even more, and the Bro guys/gals get a cut!!!!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

One thing to remember is that when they can't fill new hire classes because the pay is so low they will have to raise it.Also, why is it that Skywest was wrong to vote in a combined rate, but now that we can get rid of it every one is saying don't do it.
I think we should take a page from the ALPA play book ( take what you can and fight another day)

A little melodramatic don't you think? Can you go back and find where somebody said to keep the combined rate?

 

[Bluto]

I don't think anybody's arguing that this proposal is industry-leading. Clearly, no raise for the Bro is an insult. The raise offered is insufficient. Newhire pay is still atrocious.

However, having said all that. It does provide a differentiation for the 70 and 90. It does have an amendable date. It provides regular increases (for the 70 and 90) for the next few years. Perhaps most importantly, we really have no better option.

For those of you planning or advocating a "No" vote, take a hard look at what you hope to accomplish with this. What do you think's going to happen? A resounding no-vote will suddenly cause Brad to change his mind? I don't think so. Understanding the situation we are in, as far from ideal as this situation is, I think this package is probably our best option.

It doesn't address our representational problems, if anything, I think it highlights those short-comings. But, for now, this pay package and our ALPA drive are two seperate issues.

 

[ballsdeep123]

I don't think anybody's arguing that this proposal is industry-leading. Clearly, no raise for the Bro is an insult. The raise offered is insufficient. Newhire pay is still atrocious.

However, having said all that. It does provide a differentiation for the 70 and 90. It does have an amendable date. It provides regular increases (for the 70 and 90) for the next few years. Perhaps most importantly, we really have no better option.

For those of you planning or advocating a "No" vote, take a hard look at what you hope to accomplish with this. What do you think's going to happen? A resounding no-vote will suddenly cause Brad to change his mind? I don't think so. Understanding the situation we are in, as far from ideal as this situation is, I think this package is probably our best option.

It doesn't address our representational problems, if anything, I think it highlights those short-comings. But, for now, this pay package and our ALPA drive are two seperate issues.

Would you buy a car for sticker price? Probably not, so why would you take the first offer when it comes to pay? I'm not sure what it's like working for a carrier that doesn't have any representation, but you should never take the first offer when negotiating. It makes management think they should have offered less since you were so willing to jump on the first offer.

 

[Bluto]

VOTE YES!

And just wait and see what happens when you are suddenly way more expensive than ASA. Can you say "transfer of planes back to ASA"!

But hey, knock yourselves out..........

Can you say, "I have no idea what I'm talking about!" You really think our management, with absolutely no leverage applied to them, would offer rates that would make us less competetive? How stupid do you think they are? Your post makes absolutely zero sense. If you had any idea how "negotiations" at SkyWest work, you'd know there is no possible way for our pilots to get an unsustainably high raise. (There are those that will argue that there is no way we can get even a reasonable raise, either, but that's the other side of that coin.) We have zero threat to management, they hold all the cards, but somehow, in your fantasy world, we're going to pull a fast one that makes the company insolvent. Brilliant.

 

[Bluto]

Would you buy a car for sticker price? Probably not, so why would you take the first offer when it comes to pay? I'm not sure what it's like working for a carrier that doesn't have any representation, but you should never take the first offer when negotiating. It makes management think they should have offered less since you were so willing to jump on the first offer.

This is the only part of your post that really matters. You have no idea what it's like. You people advocating a no-vote have no idea how things work at SkyWest. We voted down our last pay proposal. Do you know what happened? Pay talks ended. Our management said, "Ok, you must be happy with what we have now. Thanks for playing." The thing people fail to understand is that we have zero leverage. Zero. None. If we voted tomorrow, 100% no-vote. NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. This isn't like the car dealership where you can go across the street and buy a Toyota instead. Our management knows that the people who can move on will, and the rest aren't going anywhere, at least not in numbers that make a difference to them. Pay negotiations are completely different here from a union carrier. I'm hesitant even to call them negotiations. Have I stated it clearly enough? Under our current representative structure, there's nothing we can do to effect change that they aren't willing to offer.

But hey, thanks for the 7th grade lesson in negotiation.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Would you buy a car for sticker price? Probably not, so why would you take the first offer when it comes to pay? I'm not sure what it's like working for a carrier that doesn't have any representation, but you should never take the first offer when negotiating. It makes management think they should have offered less since you were so willing to jump on the first offer.

This isnt the first offer its the second and its not much better than the first. It looks like the same measley 1.2% they offered last time. The only difference is the Bro drivers are being sacraficed to split the 70 and 90 seat rates.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Deep breath Bluto. In with the good, out with the bad.

I for one am glad to see you guys moving away from a combined rate. I know you guys have no leverage with management and will do what you guys think is best for you.

As an ASA pilot, we are all watching closely what happens with you for obvious reasons. I think whoever settles first will be the measuring stick for the other group.

The links I posted earlier I hoped would be used by your group to decide if your current offer is fair and reasonable.

I believe that even though we are run as separate carriers, our current situations have more effect on eachother than any other airline right now.

Best of luck with your decisions.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Deep breath Bluto. In with the good, out with the bad.

I for one am glad to see you guys moving away from a combined rate. I know you guys have no leverage with management and will do what you guys think is best for you.

As an ASA pilot, we are all watching closely what happens with you for obvious reasons. I think whoever settles first will be the measuring stick for the other group.

The links I posted earlier I hoped would be used by your group to decide if your current offer is fair and reasonable.

I believe that even though we are run as separate carriers, our current situations have more effect on eachother than any other airline right now.

Best of luck with your decisions.

Well from what it sounds like this thing is going to be voted in. Even though this proposal splits the rates ITS CRAP!

 

[ballsdeep123]

This is the only part of your post that really matters. You have no idea what it's like. You people advocating a no-vote have no idea how things work at SkyWest. We voted down our last pay proposal. Do you know what happened? Pay talks ended. Our management said, "Ok, you must be happy with what we have now. Thanks for playing." The thing people fail to understand is that we have zero leverage. Zero. None. If we voted tomorrow, 100% no-vote. NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. This isn't like the car dealership where you can go across the street and buy a Toyota instead. Our management knows that the people who can move on will, and the rest aren't going anywhere, at least not in numbers that make a difference to them. Pay negotiations are completely different here from a union carrier. I'm hesitant even to call them negotiations. Have I stated it clearly enough? Under our current representative structure, there's nothing we can do to effect change that they aren't willing to offer.

But hey, thanks for the 7th grade lesson in negotiation.

Take it easy buddy. I didn't mean to get your panties in a bundle.

It seems kind of weird that you realize that you have absolutely no leverage and yet the majority of your pilot group doesn't want any kind of representation because they don't want to pay 2% out of their pay. Good luck with you 1% raise that won't even cover the cost of living increases. Oh yeah and those are some really nice rates on the 900's. Great job!

 

[jeroom]

Those rates are pathetic

And that ASS in your avatar is demoniac...

 

[Lance Uppercut]

it's not a 'Bro'. it's an EMB-120 Brasilia. period. drives me nuts that guys who have 20 hrs in the airplane call it a 'Bro'.

i've never heard the airplane called a 'Bro' and i flew it for 3 years. flightinfo.com is the first and last place i've ever heard it. i can only hope it doesn't find its way into the vernacular.

Relax peaches. There's stew that refers to it as "The Brasildo".

 

[Gr82Aviate]

You know I hear pilots complaining all the time about not getting a Cost of Living increase each year - but every pilot I know including skywest has a pay scale that gives them a raise every year. a 6th year captain makes more than a 5th year captain and so on. (EG: $63/hr to $65/hr is around a 3% increase). I would call that a raise. The only people who are not making more each year are the people at the top end of the pay scale.

You must either be new to the industry, management, or just ignorant? Those increases you speak of are for longevity... in the past we always got a longevity increase, and a cost of living increase! This allowed a senior crewmember to make more than a junior one, and gave us an increase that was supposed to keep up with inflation. 9/11 was used as an excuse to get rid of our cost of living increases, so now the pay has been going backward for the last 6 years(unless by some chance you've managed to continue paying the same prices today that you did 6 years ago, which I really doubt)!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

You must either be new to the industry, management, or just ignorant? Those increases you speak of are for longevity... in the past we always got a longevity increase, and a cost of living increase! This allowed a senior crewmember to make more than a junior one, and gave us an increase that was supposed to keep up with inflation. 9/11 was used as an excuse to get rid of our cost of living increases, so now the pay has been going backward for the last 6 years(unless by some chance you've managed to continue paying the same prices today that you did 6 years ago, which I really doubt)!

So put that 737 rating to good use. Loser!

 

[ILOVEBEER]

PM me your email address and I will send you the pay package file.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

This isnt the first offer its the second and its not much better than the first. It looks like the same measley 1.2% they offered last time. The only difference is the Bro drivers are being sacraficed to split the 70 and 90 seat rates.

So are the 50 seat drivers, and combined with the Bro drivers that's the majority of the pilot group! This is a really pathetic offer!!