National Seniority Protocol

[YourPilotFriend]

The seniority system has to be done away with, not made bigger. A national seniority list will not protect pilots from furlough, or the 1113(c) process.

If you chose an airline that went bust, such is life. You lost, accept it and move on...you are not entitled to a position at another airline.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

No one has mentioned how this is going to be sold to the ALPA carriers.... What's the incentive for the airlines to agree to this?

Airlines would love it because only your seniority would come over with the move, longevity would not transfer. If a company posts a captain vacancy, it is bid on by pilots nation wide. No one gets moved out of their current seat.

 

[ifly4u]

Nationwide cock block is more like it. Be careful what you wish for you might get it.

 

[saabservant]

Longevity would have to be retained as well, to remove management incentive to constantly find new, inexpensive bodies.

I'm all for this, in part because I put in over ten years at a regional, took a chance at United, and now my seniority is worthless at my old job, or any other carrier.
I try to explain why I can't go back to my old job to non-aviation friends, or friends who are part of REAL unions, and they can't believe it....

The present seniority system needs to be either trashed completely, or reformed to be a true national union....we all pay dues to the same union, mostly.

Regardless, the real problem here stems from outsourcing, and c-scale careers at regionals...

 

[ifly4u]

Longevity would have to be retained as well, to remove management incentive to constantly find new, inexpensive bodies.

I'm all for this, in part because I put in over ten years at a regional, took a chance at United, and now my seniority is worthless at my old job, or any other carrier.
I try to explain why I can't go back to my old job to non-aviation friends, or friends who are part of REAL unions, and they can't believe it....

The present seniority system needs to be either trashed completely, or reformed to be a true national union....we all pay dues to the same union, mostly.

Regardless, the real problem here stems from outsourcing, and c-scale careers at regionals...

I'm not trashing your decision to further your career. But why do you feel you're entitled to return to your old company with full seniority? I've said on here before I would be on board with some sort of portable longevity in regards to pay, but this proposal seems more like a Trojan Horse designed to give mainline pilots "bumping rights" at the regionals. I'll be interested to see if this idea gets any traction.

 

[DoinTime]

The present seniority system needs to be either trashed completely, or reformed to be a true national union....we all pay dues to the same union, mostly.

Until the self serving pilot groups at carriers like American, UPS, JetBlue, and Airtran (among others) get on board a "national" pilots union is but something to strive for.

 

[Nevets]

Nevets,
You appear in favor of this but I take it you fly for a regional. As I see it, if UAL craters (which is what this is all about) you would be ineligable for a mainline job for the foreseable future, no point in even applying for a job anywere else untill all of UAL's ex pilots have a job.

I'm in favor of a national seniority list. And I do fly for a regional. I may not like everything in this resolution mostly because I don't understand exactly what they are getting at, such as the "benchmark" term. But according to this resolution, a committee of pilots from both major and regional carriers would come up with the protocol. And it also calls for a vote. I put it out here for everyone to contact their MEC chairman to tell him how you feel about this resolution, ask him to propose an amendment, vote in favor or against it, etc.

I agree that this can have negative consequences depending on how its implemented and that is why I posted it. I personally think that the concept is a good idea but it needs to be done right the first time and this may be an attempt at that.

 

[Nevets]

What would happen in a furlough situation? Say my airline is doing badly and furloughs and I want to go over to a properly staffed airline with no open positions. Would the properly staffed airline then have to furlough someone to make room for me to come over? Maybe I'm over-thinking this.

Talk to your MEC chairman and tell him that this is a concern of yours.

I personally don't see them implementing this where a pilot can displace another one. There would probably have to be a vacancy.

 

[Nevets]

It gets worse than that. FO's at the regionals won't be able to upgrade and get their domicile because they would be blocked. And the captains would be subject to greater risk of downgrading or being awarded the domicile of their choice if there is any hickup in staffing. It's close to a nationwide flowback, just without the furloughs - at least initially.

In a game of musical chairs, someone is always left standing.

Or you can look at it as being able to bid for vacancies across company lines rather than just at your current company. I don't know if that is what this resolution is getting at but I don't see it the way you do if in fact this is the case.

 

[Nevets]

No one has mentioned how this is going to be sold to the ALPA carriers.... What's the incentive for the airlines to agree to this?

There probably isn't much incentive to management. The resolution calls for the inclusion of this seniority protocol policy in the contracts so presumably there would be some leverage used up for putting it in the contract.