National Seniority Protocol

[PCL_128]

It all depends on ones definition of "progress"......If it means a 2 year UAL pilot gets to bump me down.....then I will fight that "progress".....I bet you believe that he should be able to bump me down...

Depends on how long that 2-year UAL guy has been flying for the airlines. If he was a 2-year Colgan pilot prior to getting hired at UAL, then no, he shouldn't bump you. If he was a 5-year PCL pilot before before going to UAL, then maybe so. But what I think doesn't matter, as the committee will be tasked with debating these issues. I think it will end up a lot better for you than you think it will. (if it even makes it off the floor of the BOD, anyway)

 

[PCL_128]

How about a definition of how the list is to be formed before we get too far ahead of ourselves....

That's absurd. The committee will be formed to figure out these issues. If you don't like what they come up with, then oppose it then. Opposing it now simply because of what they might do is asinine.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Depends on how long that 2-year UAL guy has been flying for the airlines. If he was a 2-year Colgan pilot prior to getting hired at UAL, then no, he shouldn't bump you. If he was a 5-year PCL pilot before before going to UAL, then maybe so. But what I think doesn't matter, as the committee will be tasked with debating these issues. I think it will end up a lot better for you than you think it will. (if it even makes it off the floor of the BOD, anyway)

So a 5 year PNCL pilot who was at United for 2 years (combined 7 years) gets to bump my 14+ years.....That's why I'm not getting warm fuzzies about this......AAA/AWA, TWA/AA, and DAL/NWA can't agree on this....There is no way the "big airplane" drivers are going to give "little airplane" drivers a fair shake....

 

[JoeMerchant]

That's absurd. The committee will be formed to figure out these issues. If you don't like what they come up with, then oppose it then. Opposing it now simply because of what they might do is asinine.

Oh an ALPA committee will be formed to protect me.....Excuse me while I.....uke:

 

[PCL_128]

So a 5 year PNCL pilot who was at United for 2 years (combined 7 years) gets to bump my 14+ years.....That's why I'm not getting warm fuzzies about this......AAA/AWA, TWA/AA, and DAL/NWA can't agree on this....There is no way the "big airplane" drivers are going to give "little airplane" drivers a fair shake....

It was just an example, Joey. I have no idea how long you've been at ASA. No, a 7 year guy probably shouldn't bump a 14 year guy. But, I would say that there should be some small advantage for mainline guys. It would not be right for you to be able to bid into the left seat of the 757 at DAL all of a sudden. Maybe 0.75 years for every year at the regionals, and 1 for 1 for every year at the majors. I don't know what the exact numbers should be, but I don't believe it should be 1 for 1 for time spent at the regionals. A 20-year Pinnacle pilot should not be able to bump an 18-year NWA Captain.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It was just an example, Joey. I have no idea how long you've been at ASA. No, a 7 year guy probably shouldn't bump a 14 year guy. But, I would say that there should be some small advantage for mainline guys. It would not be right for you to be able to bid into the left seat of the 757 at DAL all of a sudden. Maybe 0.75 years for every year at the regionals, and 1 for 1 for every year at the majors. I don't know what the exact numbers should be, but I don't believe it should be 1 for 1 for time spent at the regionals. A 20-year Pinnacle pilot should not be able to bump an 18-year NWA Captain.

Why .75 for each year? Why are "regional" years worth less? Why should an 18 year NWA pilot be able to bump a 20 year PNCL pilot?

 

[DoinTime]

It was just an example, Joey. I have no idea how long you've been at ASA. No, a 7 year guy probably shouldn't bump a 14 year guy. But, I would say that there should be some small advantage for mainline guys. It would not be right for you to be able to bid into the left seat of the 757 at DAL all of a sudden. Maybe 0.75 years for every year at the regionals, and 1 for 1 for every year at the majors. I don't know what the exact numbers should be, but I don't believe it should be 1 for 1 for time spent at the regionals.

I would agree that windfall gains cannot be had by anyone. If regional pilots are going to succumb to a glass ceiling on their ALPA seniority that handicaps them from realizing the benefits of their longevity as ALPA pilots then there is going to have to be a glass floor installed as well. This will prevent mainline pilots from realizing a windfall gain going in the opposite direction.

A 20-year Pinnacle pilot should not be able to bump an 18-year NWA Captain.

Nor should an 18 year NWA Captain be able to bump a 20 year Pinnacle pilot.

 

[PCL_128]

Why .75 for each year? Why are "regional" years worth less? Why should an 18 year NWA pilot be able to bump a 20 year PNCL pilot?

It's a matter of career expectations, Joey. No matter how long you work at ASA, you'll never fly a 767 and make $200k per year. The NSL shouldn't provide you with an opportunity to bump the 13 year senior DAL FO from bidding to that 767 slot, because he did have expectations for that slot and income. I'm sorry Joey, but your regional years simply aren't worth as much in terms of career earnings. It's just a simple fact that a 20 year ASA career is worth far less than a 20 year Delta career. You want a windfall (again), and that's just unacceptable.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I would agree that windfall gains cannot be had by anyone. If regional pilots are going to succumb to a glass ceiling on their ALPA seniority that handicaps them from realizing the benefits of their longevity as ALPA pilots then there is going to have to be a glass floor installed as well. This will prevent mainline pilots from realizing a windfall gain going in the opposite direction.




Nor should an 18 year NWA Captain be able to bump a 20 year Pinnacle pilot.

:beer:
Now some are starting to see why the ASA/CMR PID failed.....It has to be a two way street.....No windfalls for EITHER side.....

 

[PCL_128]

Nor should an 18 year NWA Captain be able to bump a 20 year Pinnacle pilot.

I disagree.