Latest DAL/NWA arbitration debates

[DTW320]

Right, just in time for the fences to drop, and NWA pilots benefitting from Delta retirements whilst NWA's retirements stagnate. Kinda of a heads I win, tails you lose.

You're kidding right?
What numbers are you looking at?

In the next 10 years from today, 1263 NW pilots will hit age 65.

In the 5 years that follow that, 2018 through 2023, 1570 NW pilots hit age 65.

More in the 5 years following the 10 year from today mark, than in the entire period from today through 10 years from today.

Thats 55% of the list in the next 15 years.

24% of the current list in the next 10 years, followed by another 31% in the following 5 years.

Is that your definition of "stagnation"?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Cobra757,

Sounds like the standard stump speech, particularly as the line employees go into representational votes soon. Usually he means what he says. Others on FI can give your some pretty bad horrific quotes from his testimony during the bankruptcy hearings.

 

[PuffDriver]

Cobra757,

Sounds like the standard stump speech, particularly as the line employees go into representational votes soon. Usually he means what he says. Others on FI can give your some pretty bad horrific quotes from his testimony during the bankruptcy hearings.

Good stuff, Cobra. I thought that I had heard the 74-4 flight was going to be in addition to the 777 flight. IOW 2 flights a day to NRT. Anyone?

 

[PuffDriver]

You're kidding right?
What numbers are you looking at?

In the next 10 years from today, 1263 NW pilots will hit age 65.

In the 5 years that follow that, 2018 through 2023, 1570 NW pilots hit age 65.

More in the 5 years following the 10 year from today mark, than in the entire period from today through 10 years from today.

Thats 55% of the list in the next 15 years.


24% of the current list in the next 10 years, followed by another 31% in the following 5 years.

Is that your definition of "stagnation"?

Ok fair enough. We retire 3284 in the next 17 years. You want to keep playing these numbers games, or perhaps are retirements equalizing over the time period? Fact is that NWA gets rid of more sooner, and Delta gets rid of more later. Yet NWA wants credit for retirements for about 10 years, and then level field conditions as Delta retirements pick up.

The facts.

 

[DTW320]

Ok fair enough. We retire 3284 in the next 17 years. You want to keep playing these numbers games, or perhaps are retirements equalizing over the time period? Fact is that NWA gets rid of more sooner, and Delta gets rid of more later. Yet NWA wants credit for retirements for about 10 years, and then level field conditions as Delta retirements pick up.

The facts.

Numbers Games???? What???

YOU and other DAL pilots have made SPECIFIC claims that NWA retirements screech to a near halt in 10 years just as DAL retirements are ramping up.

I provide cold, hard, numbers that show that is 100% wrong and I'm accused of playing numbers games?? GMAFB!!

NWA retirements actually ACCELERATE starting in 10 years. Your D@mn right we want credit for the 24% of our list that retires due to age 65(many going before that, but I agree, 65 is all that can be officially counted). DALPA's proposal seeks to nullify that attrition.

Really hilarious how you guys spout BS as fact and then divert and deflect when called on it.

 

[DTW320]

We retire 3284 in the next 17 years.

That = 44% of your current list.

In the next 17 years NWA retires 3390 pilots.

That = 66% of our current list

 

[PuffDriver]

That = 44% of your current list.

In the next 17 years NWA retires 3390 pilots.

That = 66% of our current list

3390-3284=106

What were the pull out numbers given as an example in the testimony again?

Now we're getting somewhere.

 

[DTW320]

3390-3284=106

What were the pull out numbers given as an example in the testimony again?

Now we're getting somewhere.

What was that claim you made again?

Right, just in time for the fences to drop, and NWA pilots benefitting from Delta retirements whilst NWA's retirements stagnate. Kinda of a heads I win, tails you lose

Where were you "getting to" again?

 

[PuffDriver]

What was that claim you made again?
Where were you "getting to" again?

I was getting to the fact that NWA proposed a dynamic list for some period of time which ironically would become static as Delta retirements are on the rise. Thus NWA enjoys the peak time for NWA pilots and Delta pilots are left in the cold. Yet when Delta catches up in the retirement department, the dynamic stops and NWA gets to enjoy Delta peak retirements as well. Interesting.

Meanwhile, Delta pilots devise a program at the request of the arbitrator which takes into account a retirements at NWA and effectively changes a dynamic list into static somewhat. I believe they used an example of low 100s for the pull out number. Interesting. It also subverts some other things NWA was attempting to sneak past.

Regardless, we just had a substantial AE out, and I need to go look at that.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Good stuff, Cobra. I thought that I had heard the 74-4 flight was going to be in addition to the 777 flight. IOW 2 flights a day to NRT. Anyone?

That's what I heard also. With the usual caveats about market conditions.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

That is the way the press release read.

 

[General Lee]

Funniest post of the YEAR!!!!!!

Numbers Games???? What???

YOU and other DAL pilots have made SPECIFIC claims that NWA retirements screech to a near halt in 10 years just as DAL retirements are ramping up.

I provide cold, hard, numbers that show that is 100% wrong and I'm accused of playing numbers games?? GMAFB!!

NWA retirements actually ACCELERATE starting in 10 years. Your D@mn right we want credit for the 24% of our list that retires due to age 65(many going before that, but I agree, 65 is all that can be officially counted). DALPA's proposal seeks to nullify that attrition.

Really hilarious how you guys spout BS as fact and then divert and deflect when called on it.

You guys are SOOOO numbers oriented, right? How about the retired guys in your seniority list? How about that A330 flight plan that was MADE UP? How about the furlough numbers your MEC Chair couldn't recall? How about the average number of hours your guys came up with that we supposedly fly, vs your numbers, to skew our higher pay? How about all of the innaccurate numbers your computer model projected for fleet numbers, as of Jan 1st of 2008? You forgot in those numbers that we had extra 777s coming too, and added phantom 787 jobs that were supposed to be here by July 1st of next year. That is what your Capt on the stand said!!! Ah heck, it's only numbers.....

You guys are full of mistakes, and each one was called out on you at the hearings. Gimmee a break! Funniest post of the year BY A MILE....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ExAF]

Glad you agree

Right, just in time for the fences to drop, and NWA pilots benefitting from Delta retirements whilst NWA's retirements stagnate. Kinda of a heads I win, tails you lose.

The point was that the 10 year fences protect the majority while they are still on the property and "they" don't care what happens after that point. It doesn't affect "their" position or QOL.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yes, but it effects everyone else that is left after that.

 

[Monster Buck]

I was getting to the fact that NWA proposed a dynamic list for some period of time which ironically would become static as Delta retirements are on the rise. Thus NWA enjoys the peak time for NWA pilots and Delta pilots are left in the cold. Yet when Delta catches up in the retirement department, the dynamic stops and NWA gets to enjoy Delta peak retirements as well. Interesting.

Meanwhile, Delta pilots devise a program at the request of the arbitrator which takes into account a retirements at NWA and effectively changes a dynamic list into static somewhat. I believe they used an example of low 100s for the pull out number. Interesting. It also subverts some other things NWA was attempting to sneak past.

Regardless, we just had a substantial AE out, and I need to go look at that.

I noticed that too. Funny how that works. Must be a timing coincidence.

 

[ExAF]

Reeeeeeealy Dick Tracy

Yes, but it effects everyone else that is left after that.

Brilliant! You figured it out! The point is....THEY don't care....not everyone else left after that.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Brilliant! You figured it out! The point is....THEY don't care....not everyone else left after that.

And these are the people that are representing you? Oh boy!

 

[ExAF]

Not Really

And these are the people that are representing you? Oh boy!

No...they are not necessarily the ones representing me, THEY are just a very large chunk of our seniority list that would be unaffected should there be a 10 year fence/pull out/put in/or anything else that happens after the 10 yr point. They just don't care much about that horizon.

 

[Superpilot92]

everyone will benefit from the retirements from both sides regardless of how the SLI is established. Positions may be blocked out for specific sides but EVERYONE moves up a number when someone retires. Plus the DAL side doesnt want to fly any of our aircraft remember? So why should they care if our positions are locked out?

Bottom line is we all will benefit from every retirement regardless of the side that retirement comes from.

On a positive note:

PS. OU is owning Texas Tech right now!! Tech is getting what they deserve after beating my Horns!! :angryfire

Beer + College Football = :beer:

 

[General Lee]

everyone will benefit from the retirements from both sides regardless of how the SLI is established. Positions may be blocked out for specific sides but EVERYONE moves up a number when someone retires. Plus the DAL side doesnt want to fly any of our aircraft remember? So why should they care if our positions are locked out?

Bottom line is we all will benefit from every retirement regardless of the side that retirement comes from.

On a positive note:

PS. OU is owning Texas Tech right now!! Tech is getting what they deserve after beating my Horns!! :angryfire

Beer + College Football = :beer:

Do you really think any of our pilots would want to fly the DC9?(the old version DTW320, I know you are going to say the DC9-88 is the MD88.....riiight) It pays the least, and has no automation, and goes to some interesting cities. IF NWA guys like it, then great, then they can keep flying it. Now, would any DC9 pilot want to fly the MD88? Heck yeah, it is a nice pay raise, and it allows you to fly the advanced version. Does anyone want to drive a Gremlin car too? And wait Super92, aren't you flying the Airbus now? Had enough of that DC9, eh? Exactly.


Bye Bye--General Lee