Latest DAL/NWA arbitration debates

[General Lee]

Attention all Delta Pilots: The DC9 is just another airplane. You don't need to be afraid of it. I'm sure after a few sim periods and after a few trips, you will do just fine. You guys are still pilots right? If you're that scared, go out to your local FBO and rent a Cessna to get back the feel of really flying an airplane.

NWA has some of the best instructors and a great training program to get you through your checkout on the DC9.

That's not how our guys describe it on the stand. Sounds like it will be in it's own category, all by itself, with it's pilots.....


And you can just see a highlight
23 there that the DC-9 is severely limited in
24 range and the amount of capacity that it has.


2 Northwest management in one of their
3 bankruptcy documents that we put in
4 Exhibit 31, page six says that the limited
5 range of the DC-9 limits its growth
6 opportunities.


And again, what I did was I took the
23 DC-9 fleets, the individual fleet types within
24 that DC-9 fleet, and compared them to the
25 MD-88, which is Delta's airplane with the

2 least amount of capabilities or the lowest
3 capability aircraft that we have in the
4 medium-gauge domestic.
5 And you can see there that the
6 bottom line, especially comparing the maximum
7 ASM, there's more than just a small
8 difference. There's a large difference
9 between those airplanes. And that's why we
10 felt that the DC-9 did deserve to be in a
11 separate grouping than all of the other
12 aircraft in that medium-gauge domestic.

The
22 MD-88 -- if we looked at the previous one, the
23 MD-88 is used as a hub-feed aircraft.
24 Sometimes it will go Atlanta to Savannah or
25 Atlanta to Knoxville and feed passengers.

2 But it also has the capability to
3 do long-range outflow from the hubs. It
4 landed in Tucson, landed in Phoenix. They are
5 now using it on long-range Caribbean turns to
6 go down to the islands and back.
7 The DC-9 just doesn't have the
8 capability to do that. So therefore it's
9 limited to staying within a certain range of
10 the hubs.

think Captain Gilroy testified
11 that most of the DC-9 missions are less than
12 500 miles. And primarily in today's markets
13 those airplanes are being relegated to the
14 smaller, more fuel-efficient 50 to 76 seat
15 market


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

Then tell me why they pay less than an aircraft that weighs at less than 255,000 MTGW?

1/1/08 pay:

A330 - $161.51
75/6 -$ 159.98

Next.....

 

[Scope out RJ's]

1/1/08 pay:

A330 - $161.51
75/6 -$ 159.98

Next.....

So much for the ignore list, eh sparky?
You're welcome for the pay raise........
Next!

 

[General Lee]

1/1/08 pay:

A330 - $161.51
75/6 -$ 159.98

Next.....

Wait, you were comparing the A330 to the 764 in the hearings, and 12th year Capt on that is $181 an hour. Which is closer? A330---$161.51 and 757/767 $159.98 or $161.51 and $181 on the 764? I think you are WRONG. Thank gawd those two rates are related (A330 and 76ER)--and they will likely be grouped together. Just like the DC9 will be all by itself at the bottom.

Also, do you believe today's rates should be used rather than what we each had prior to the DCC? Let's see what the testimony on that said...:


Is that the Delta pilot's view of
3 how the analysis regarding staffing ratios and
4 captain jobs ought to be conducted?
5 A. In the balancing of the equities,
6 the collective bargaining agreement that the
7 pilots come into the merger with is what
8 should be considered.
9 Q. And the jobs they hold?
10 A. And the jobs that they hold


NEXT.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Klamath]

reading all this makes my head hurt. maybe on dec 8th I'll stop drinking beer, or maybe I'll drink more

 

[jetflier]

think Captain Gilroy testified
11 that most of the DC-9 missions are less than
12 500 miles. And primarily in today's markets
13 those airplanes are being relegated to the
14 smaller, more fuel-efficient 50 to 76 seat
15 market

I think most are not really seeing the truth behind these statements.

Management loves to use "fuel Efficiency" as a justifiable reason to want to replace the DC9 (100 seat) with the EMB (76seat) aircraft.

True that the much smaller regional jet burns less fuel,..saves money. fourty percent less pilot cost,... saves money.

But they never address the cost of the smaller/newer jet, somewhere around $8000/day loan/lease.

The reasoning is clear, management has convinced the pilot group that giving main line pilot job's to the regional pilots is good for them.
I'm surprised that some mainline pilots agree with management's line of thinking.
Salty old ALPA pilots who fought to make the pilot profession great, must be rolling over in their graves.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They do not want to address that. Fact is that the acquisition cost of a RJ is about what it costs for a D check on a 757. Scary isn't it?

 

[TWA Dude]

If ALPA violates DFR, yeah, they'll get sued. I'm sure Prater realizes that and knows that screwing either side would result in a decertification drive.

Prater may realize it but that doesn't mean he's smart enough to avoid it. Remember, he tried appeasing the USAir Easties and they decerted ALPA anyway. Don't expect Prater to do the wise thing if action is needed.

 

[DTW320]

So much for the ignore list, eh sparky?

Nah...it's still there....but sometimes your massive stupidity shines through even an ignore filter.....funny how that works.

 

[~~~^~~~]

TWA Dude:

The only visible threat on the horizon is something ACL has speculated about, the idea of a ratio for the senior pilots and a different methodology for a disadvantaged group of new hires so that Delta and ALPA could jerrymander furloughs and scope protections. If that happened it would be a clear violation of the Duty of Fair Representation inasmuch as a different standard was used with a disparate impact. The could do nearly the same thing by adjusting integration ratios and be a lot less blatant in a DFR violation, so I think that is probably how they would do it, if they wanted to do it, which I'm not even sure they want to do it.

The arguments brought forward in the SLI hearings have not even touched tangentially on splitting methodologies for the junior pilots, so I have to think there is little chance of that happening by mutual agreement. ACL65 is probably correct that it was a consideration during negotiations and I hope the idea died there for all the right reasons.

If you are from TWA, I certainly understand where you are coming from.

On the NWA side, who knows what they expect, but it seems that they expect much more than status quo, which might be a problem.