Latest DAL/NWA arbitration debates

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How would you explain "pull out, plug in?" I'm sincerely asking if anyone has a handle on it. Apparently this is getting on record a tool that was discussed during Mediation and was "off the record" until re-introduced by Delta's Counsel.

That's the
10 tool part that we are presenting here for the
11 board to consider and weigh what the proper
12 number of a pull-out would be.

In this use "we" is Freund for the DAL side.

 

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and apparently this tool is something Bloch asked for and something he intends to use in the award:

CHAIRMAN BLOCH: Maybe I can help.
4 I mean I think that's an accurate
5 recitation. That was one of the
6 variations that I asked to be presented
7 for the parties' scrutiny, review and
8 it was done. And I'm glad it's in
9 evidence because it will help us as one
10 of the many variations that we will be
11 asking from you subsequently.

CHAIRMAN BLOCH: I understood you
4 guys to be jousting over whether it
5 sprang newborn from their heads or
6 mine.
7 MR. FREUND: Exactly right.
8 CHAIRMAN BLOCH: And it was mine
9 and we discussed it.

So there we have it; Ratios with a pull out & plug in dreamed up by the Chairman himself, using DAL's computer model to protect NWA's attrition as an equity, which is a new precedent in SLI.

Surprised no one else has an opinion on this.

 

[PuffDriver]

How would you explain "pull out, plug in?" I'm sincerely asking if anyone has a handle on it. Apparently this is getting on record a tool that was discussed during Mediation and was "off the record" until re-introduced by Delta's Counsel.

In this use "we" is Freund for the DAL side.

You have described it correctly in a previous post, my friend.

My take is that DOH is history. My take is that NWA is agreeable to a ratio provided that they are "slot protected" not only for their super premium widebodies, but also for medically retired pilots to "hold" those slots until they do retire, quit, die, etc so that another NWA pilot may leapfrog into that slot, and that allowances be made for older pilots farther down the list to provide slots for NWA pilots to leapfrog into who would not otherwise hold these spots in a NWA only system.

They were pretty much blown out of the water by RH and RW. While I personally do not agree with RH and RW's A330 vs 767 testimony--which IMO will be an area of "give" on negotiation, their exploitation of all of the areas of a dynamic list which will be problematic down the road pretty much sealed the fate of any kind of dynamic list.

Which leaves the NWA pilots with, drum roll please, nothing. I think that the best NWA can hope for at this point is exactly what RW proposed with his "user tool", which would provide somewhat of a "pre-dynamic" list. Put the dynamics in, not even close to all of what NWA wanted BTW, at the beginning of the list and then the list operates as a traditional list with regard to retirements.

Long story short, Deltas original proposal with slightly less stove piping, and I do mean slightly. At the very least, ACL and fins, I think your futures just got a LOT more solidified.

Also interesting is that apparently the Delta side has brought baseball style arbitration into the mix. Apparently it had something to do with the meditation, which I am not privy to, but I think that I know why. Very intelligent move. Anybody wanna explain why for a 4 day cruise to Mexico?

As I have been so eloquently quoted: game, set, match.

 

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Puff - thanks for your analysis.

The concession to NWA with regard to attrition being brought forward as an equity in SLI is a pretty big deal because it has never been done before. As the Delta side explained, they may be jumping over Delta pilots in a 5 to 1 ratio. There is also the issue of NWA's stacking of the list with folks who are not line pilots.

A short fence means NWA can't use their super seniority immediately to bid out of position and this will be the party line to keep the DAL side from revolting, however, it still means on day one the NWA side will be a whole lot better off than status quo and the 757/767 can't really be fenced. The bottom of the list will be much more Delta than it should be, while the top of the list will be more Red than it currently is to make up now for future attrition.

Of course, Delta simply provided the analytical tool, they have not agreed to its use, or agreed that it should be used.

IMHO better than status quo is not status quo and Bloch is wrong for having asked for it. But Bloch is in control here, although I can't tell the inclination of the other two. I don't like this a bit, but it is pretty smart. Who selected Bloch? Uh' no.

 

[nwaredtail]

Also interesting is that apparently the Delta side has brought baseball style arbitration into the mix. Apparently it had something to do with the meditation, which I am not privy to, but I think that I know why. Very intelligent move.

Yup, very smart, right out of the USAIR playbook. My way or the highway I think it is called.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff - thanks for your analysis.

The concession to NWA with regard to attrition being brought forward as an equity in SLI is a pretty big deal because it has never been done before. As the Delta side explained, they may be jumping over Delta pilots in a 5 to 1 ratio.

A short fence means NWA can't use their super seniority immediately to bid out of position and this will be the party line to keep the DAL side from revolting, however, it still means on day one the NWA side will be a whole lot better off than status quo. Further, the bottom of the list will be much more Delta than it should be, while the top of the list will be more Red than it currently is.

Of course, Delta simply provided the analytical tool, they have not agreed to its use, or agreed that it should be used.

IMHO better than status quo is not status quo and Bloch is wrong for having asked for it. But Bloch is in control here, although I can't tell the inclination of the other two. I don't like this a bit, but it is pretty smart. Who selected Bloch? Uh' no.

I agree with everything that you have said. Our side made it very clear that this is not a proposal, and our original proposal is as stands. Meanwhile, NWA went from their proposal to somethng WORSE. Could it be, perhaps, that Bloch is trying to find something, anything, in order to throw the NWA pilots a bone. Check your PM for further discussion. Interesting stuff, to say the least.

 

[nwaredtail]

IMHO better than status quo is not status quo and Bloch is wrong for having asked for it.

Wow, you are the expert though. Arrogant, who said arrogant?

But Bloch is in control here, although I can't tell the inclination of the other two.

See, now that tells me something about you. Have you done ANY research into how these arbitrators have rules in the past? I have.

 

[PuffDriver]

Yup, very smart, right out of the USAIR playbook. My way or the highway I think it is called.

You are not paying attention to what is going on, and you are setting yourself up for Green book, Red book relations.

 

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The "Baseball Style Arbitration" is limited in scope and only deals with interpretation of "Replacement Aircraft Language" as it applies to fences, according to the description made in the hearing.

 

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This is NWA's attorney talking about blowing the JOWA's furlough protections out of the water:

This panel's award will, to the
3 extent that it conflicts with the terms of
4 the collective bargaining agreement, override
5 the collective bargaining agreement. So
6 there's not really a need to renegotiate the
7 contract, although these provisions certainly
8 could be worked out and conformed.

 

[PuffDriver]

The "Baseball Style Arbitration" is limited in scope and only deals with interpretation of "Replacement Aircraft Language" as it applies to fences, according to the description made in the hearing.

Correct, but more than that, it is a screw which is being tightened.

 

[nwaredtail]

You are not paying attention to what is going on, and you are setting yourself up for Green book, Red book relations.

I could care less about that. If the award is anywhere closes to what y'all asked for, then y'all set yourselves up for that.

 

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Correct, but more than that, it is a screw which is being tightened.

You must know more than me on the subject. I could only guess based on the comments made during testimony.

 

[PuffDriver]

I could care less about that. If the award is anywhere closes to what y'all asked for, then y'all set yourselves up for that.

Too bad. Even if the award goes DOH with fences, it will likely be rejected by Delta--as eluded to in yesterday's testimony. Even if accepted, I would consider it for what it is, and move on. You are saying that NWA guys will burn the house down ala USAir if it goes Delta's way? If so, I would say that you set yourself up for it. It wouldn't surprise me though, with the way NWA has handled just about everything since the announcement right up through yesterday's testimony.

 

[PuffDriver]

You must know more than me on the subject. I could only guess based on the comments made during testimony.

Me too, just a gut feeling.