It's Official: USAirways Wants American

[abefly]

Also, I wonder what happens if USAPA and APA sit down to negotiate a new list, and USAPA presents a DOH list which puts AWA pilots on the bottom but protects the AA pilots relative seniority. AA has no incentive to use the nic so they agree. If USAPA and APA agree to a list, it never goes back to arbitration, and all that's left is a DFR lawsuit.

First of all , DO you really think the company would allow this?

Remember, they are a party to the suit as well. They are just as much involved as USAPA/APA.

Second of all,

APA is going to do everything they can to screw the East/West in the upcoming arbitration. They have the upper hand in this one. 120 Widebodies compared to 26. They make a lot more....should I keep going?

Trust me APA does not need a deal from USAPA to get relative seniority. They will get that or better without any help from USAPA!

It's time for the east and west to move past the NIC and start working together to get a good integration on the next merger.

Who do you want on the merger committee? The same guys who screamed DOH DOH DOH until they were blue in the face and were part of the reason the NIC is like it is?

Or the Guys on the AWA side who got the NIC???

 

[On Your Six]

Flybywire above so far has one of the only *factual* posts on this thread. Most everything else is speculation driven by large doses of hope and dreams.

A few facts:

USAPA is constitutionally directed to seek DOH in any merger.
APA is constitutionally directed to seek a staple in any merger.

Both positions are likely at odds with McCaskill-Bond any hence basically irrelevant. Neither will happen, and it appears from the APA notes that management agrees.

The notes also point to an APA takeover, no surprise, but takeover does not imply or even permit APA imposed list. This talk about "forcing" the nic or any other method through force of numbers is thoroughly misinformed. McCaskill-bond legally requires negotiation between the affected groups followed by arbitration. ALPA TA remains in effect for LCC until new negotiated or arbitrated contract is ratified. Whether an arbitrator would use or discard the nic is a separate issue and lies in the realm of speculation at this point, I'm trying to deal with facts here.

CoC language in the old ALPA contract may be a big incentive for management to expedite the process and help ensure the new, joint contract is acceptable and ratifiable by US Air pilots. If no new contract there's a very strong legal argument that LCC pay reverts to pre-bankruptcy levels.

USAPA was created because the Easties didn't like the NIC award, that was a BINDING AWARD. Don't give me the "USAPA is Constitutionally....BS..." If the merger happens, that union is GONE. GOOD BYE. Then they can shove their Constitution up their you know where. They are hiding from a binding award, plain and simple. THE TRUTH.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

First of all , DO you really think the company would allow this?

Remember, they are a party to the suit as well. They are just as much involved as USAPA/APA.

Second of all,

APA is going to do everything they can to screw the East/West in the upcoming arbitration. They have the upper hand in this one. 120 Widebodies compared to 26. They make a lot more....should I keep going?

Trust me APA does not need a deal from USAPA to get relative seniority. They will get that or better without any help from USAPA!

It's time for the east and west to move past the NIC and start working together to get a good integration on the next merger.

Who do you want on the merger committee? The same guys who screamed DOH DOH DOH until they were blue in the face and were part of the reason the NIC is like it is?

Or the Guys on the AWA side who got the NIC???

The APA will do better, even though the judge will look at the fact that the APA was in BK and could have shrunk even more had USair not come in and helped. Overall, if it happens, the APA would have a larger piece of the pie since they are bigger and have more widebodies. But, before the process starts of any possible SLI between them, the USair side has to get the NIC award implemented, and then an SLI can begin with the APA. That is the key. The Easties will continue to try to slide away from it, but it will catch up.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[ASADFW7]

The last two posts are an excellent example of leaving a crap in a paper bag in someones brain bag. Though we encourage debate on flightinfo, telling a pilot group to shove it ... is not the type of communication that helps resolves issues or finds resolution in debates. Historically we all know that there are matters unsettled, telling people to shove it isn't exactly the type of direction many individual members who are seeking current information want to sort through.

 

[get2flyin]

The last two posts are an excellent example of leaving a crap in a paper bag in someones brain bag. Though we encourage debate on flightinfo, telling a pilot group to shove it ... is not the type of communication that helps resolves issues or finds resolution in debates. Historically we all know that there are matters unsettled, telling people to shove it isn't exactly the type of direction many individual members who are seeking current information want to sort through.

He's not always eloquent, but in this case OYS correct. Let's try this instead, "The truth is a tough pill for many on the East to swallow... but the throat doesn't seem to be how the pill will end up being administered."

 

[General Lee]

He's not always eloquent, but in this case OYS correct. Let's try this instead, "The truth is a tough pill for many on the East to swallow... but the throat doesn't seem to be how the pill will end up being administered."

Instead, ASADFW7 wants to control debate, instead of letting it flourish. I think it is disgusting, and one reason I rarely post anymore. I don't see anything wrong with what OYS was saying, and the problem may be guilt associated with one group treating another like dirt. Maybe ASADFW7 feels this guilt himself. He gives OYS time off because HE WAS CORRECT. The owner needs to be briefed on this careless moderating.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

Instead, ASADFW7 wants to control debate, instead of letting it flourish. I think it is disgusting, and one reason I rarely post anymore. I don't see anything wrong with what OYS was saying, and the problem may be guilt associated with one group treating another like dirt. Maybe ASADFW7 feels this guilt himself. He gives OYS time off because HE WAS CORRECT. The owner needs to be briefed on this careless moderating.


Bye Bye---General Lee

While I could care less who got time of for what, I agree...The moderation (or over moderating) on this site is pathetic. Try to say something negative about SW, and you'll get the warning. I've seen several posts of "threatening" or "name calling" in nature and they've gone unchecked! I believe it's time for the moderator to step down!

 

[General Lee]

While I could care less who got time of for what, I agree...The moderation (or over moderating) on this site is pathetic. Try to say something negative about SW, and you'll get the warning. I've seen several posts of "threatening" or "name calling" in nature and they've gone unchecked! I believe it's time for the moderator to step down!

I agree. There is supposed to be some entertainment value to this site, and it used to be like that all the time. Sure, threats or foul language should not be tollerated, but opinions differing from the mods? Really? Way over the line. He needs to step down. He is "holding on too tight...."


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[General Lee]

USAPA was created because the Easties didn't like the NIC award, that was a BINDING AWARD. Don't give me the "USAPA is Constitutionally....BS..." If the merger happens, that union is GONE. GOOD BYE. Then they can shove their Constitution up their you know where. They are hiding from a binding award, plain and simple. THE TRUTH.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

This is why he was banned? REALLY???? Because he said they could shove their Bylaws up their "you know where?" The whole USAPA union was created to hurt the America West guys because the others didn't want to abide by a binding award. That sounds like the truth, to almost everyone. Yet OYS gets banned. Way too much power given to ASADFW7. Abuse of power.


And OYS sent me ASADFW7's message to him on the "infraction":


"Can you dial down the finger pointing in this case? I would like for members who work for both companies to come and debate issues, without being told to shove it up their......thank you"



No word of a suspension, nothing else. Needless to say OYS isn't very happy. ASADFW7 is a loose cannon and needs to get off the throne.




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

I changed my post above to reflect, you are correct I misread the notes regarding the 3 member arbitration.

However APA could impose a contract but they can't impose a list. The list used has to be negotiated or arbitrated. So they sit down and negotiate, and can't come to an agreement. It goes to arbitration. The new 3 member arbitration panel gets to decide the new list. I agree it is *likely* they would incorporate the nic since it was previously arbitrated. However that's still little more than an educated guess, it puts the ball entirely in their court.

There are only two legal unions but there are three seniority lists that must be merged. One union must represent two of those lists and of course show the Nic (and describe it legally in the same manner that the 9th did). It would be a gross missrepresentation of fact to present the Nic as a present construction of the USAir system seniority.