It's Official: USAirways Wants American

[grog_sit_reserv]

the ALPA process was never completed

Really?

I think the ALPA process was completed enough for you guys to get all huffy and form a new union.

USAPA reminds me of Clinton during the Lewinski fiasco. . . "Can you tell me what the meaning of 'is' is?" Why don't we start another thread about that? Oh wait, there already are several.

Now, if you guys want to discuss US Air / AWA seniority go start your own thread. I'm more curious about what Parker has offered APA and the odds on a successful merger.

 

[Tweaker]

The seniority issue will not even be a bump. It has been decided. If judge Silber doesn't rule before single carrier status is decided, the APA will be the conductor of the train. And they will not let the brain children at USAPA interfere in this transaction. They know the path of least resistance is the NIC. They implement that, NO LAWSUITS. They don't, AOL and the west pilots get an injunction to stop the whole show. Sorry Easties, your days are numbered.

My money's on THIS ^^^

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Now, if you guys want to discuss US Air / AWA seniority go start your own thread. I'm more curious about what Parker has offered APA and the odds on a successful merger.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that. I think we have enough East/West "You Suck, No You Suck More"
threads. As another third list dude I am mainly concerned with merger intel. It's bad enough that I have to live your guys crap every time I go to work. I know you guys just HAVE to keep proving to the rest of the pilot world just how screwed up you are could you at least do it on a thread that openly states
"Caution Monkeys throwing Crap !! Enter at your own risk."
At least then I can skip over it

 

[reepicheep]

So, all you have to do is change the name of the union and you will not be held responsible for your previous agreements?

Yup! This is what they think.

No joke.

 

[Turtle21]

Why not just straight doh keep 7 year fences for east and west and then just combine all three lists in 7 years.

The only problem with that is that proposal would eliminate any windfalls and thus no greedy pilot groups can be divided or get excited about the possibilities...

 

[Turtle21]

The NIC will be the list no matter how you look at it. ...

Lol. When answering a multiple choice test the smart folks throw out the answers that contain, "ALWAYS", "NEVER", and "NO MATTER HOW".

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Amen to that. I think we have enough East/West "You Suck, No You Suck More"
threads. As another third list dude I am mainly concerned with merger intel. It's bad enough that I have to live your guys crap every time I go to work. I know you guys just HAVE to keep proving to the rest of the pilot world just how screwed up you are could you at least do it on a thread that openly states
"Caution Monkeys throwing Crap !! Enter at your own risk."
At least then I can skip over it

I totally agree. Let's get back on topic: USAirways and will it merge with AA?

 

[Guppiedriver]

As to simply changing names to get out of obligations. Well that's where the loop hole is. The obligation and the process was an ALPA process. Two ALPA mec's agreed to an ALPA process. Before that process was completed, which includes, as per the TA, a new combined CBA, solidifying that SLI arbitration known as the NIC. Something changed. A union was voted out and another one was voted in. This union had it's own processes so it was back to square one.

Bottom line, the ALPA process was never completed. So how does an ALPA process get stuck to a new entity? You just agreed that the arbitration was an ALPA process.

Nope, there is no loophole. You uSAPians are just looking for another bite of the apple.

uSAPa has been on the losing side of every legal battle. What makes you think this time is any different?

 

[Carl S.]

Wow, got to give it to those Easties... Always looking for new ways to get out of old obligations... Dream all you want, spin tall tales under fake screen names about new legal ways to get out of an arbitration ... The desperation is sad to see as this may be coming to an end game and USAPA fades away....

 

[Turtle21]

Just a question...

If a merger were to happen right now... What are the OFFICIAL seniority lists of American and US Airways?

I don't believe the American list is in question, so their list is what it is... So we need the current OFFICIAL seniority list of US Airways... Is that the NIC? It's not the official list until ratified into a contract by the only members that are a party of the agreement (the restructuring agreement) that defined how it could become the official list.

It's on an un-implemented list. It's official in that it complied with the TA and was accepted and no other list has.

Remember, you don't get to vote on the list. You only get to vote on a contract which will implement the list - in this case the Nic.

Your argument is what Judge Wake ordered in his injunction. That discarded view is almost as old and irrelevant as a failed relative seniority integration scheme from five years ago.

 

[reepicheep]

I think the truth is Parker is going to do whatever he thinks offers the least path of resistance and the offended party can go ahead and try to sue. How well has that worked out for the west so far....5 years and counting still a DOH merge with fences in reality.

If the question is what's "right", what should be done.....not sure that's relevant unfortunately.

 

[B-atch]

A hypothetical question. Has anyone seen how a nic type list fits within the APA list? I can tell you this much, if the nic list places a 2005 AW pilot in a relative position to an AA 1980's pilot, good luck with that.
Its already been decided.

 

[Crzipilot]

Haven't looked, but I have a feeling that's about what the Nic does. I'm sure the APA will be fleshing out what works best for them, and head in that direction. as someone previously said, it will come down to path of least resistance and let the agrieved party figure out how to sue, and go through the whole DFR process again, 5-10 yrs worth, in the meantime Parker and Co, will continue on.....cost of business

 

[abefly]

A hypothetical question. Has anyone seen how a nic type list fits within the APA list? I can tell you this much, if the nic list places a 2005 AW pilot in a relative position to an AA 1980's pilot, good luck with that.
Its already been decided.

What's been decided? I must have missed that update. Can you post the decision for all of us to see?

 

[abefly]

Haven't looked, but I have a feeling that's about what the Nic does. I'm sure the APA will be fleshing out what works best for them, and head in that direction. as someone previously said, it will come down to path of least resistance and let the agrieved party figure out how to sue, and go through the whole DFR process again, 5-10 yrs worth, in the meantime Parker and Co, will continue on.....cost of business

You forget, the company is party to the suit. They are part of the transition agreement. If there is any modification to the NIC list in any form, there will be a suit filed, followed by an easy injunction to prevent any list other than the NIC.

The company will not do anything to modify the NIC unless the courts tell them it is O.K to do so. ( What do you think those chances are?)

Have you seen anything from the company saying they are going to drop the DJ case with the new possible merger?

 

[abefly]

FROM DOCUMENT 178, US AIR CROSS MOTION


I. CBAS REMAIN BINDING ON THE PARTIES UNDER THE RLA
NOTWITHSTANDING ANY CHANGE IN REPRESENTATION.​

USAPA relies on​

​

​

​

Association of Flight Attendants v USAir, Inc., 24 F.3d 1432,1438-39 (D.C. Cir. 1994) (“USAir”), in support of its argument that the TransitionAgreement is not binding on USAPA. (See Doc. No. 160 at 8:1-10:17.) This reliance,however, is misplaced. The USAir decision compels precisely the opposite conclusion:​

namely, that the Transition Agreement is binding on USAPA (as well as on US Airways).

 

[abefly]

A sad reminder, 4 years and USAPA has not accomplished one thing. So much for that 90 day contract.​

The Nicolau Seniority List Was Issued on May 3, 2007 that was
1819 days 09 hours 45 minutes 58 seconds Ago







The Merger was Announced on May 19, 2005 that was
2533 days 09 hours 45 minutes 58 seconds Ago









USAPA took over on April 18, 2008 that was
1468 days 09 hours 45 minutes 58 seconds Ago









LOA93 was signed on October 21, 2004 and the East pilots have been the lowest paid in the industry for
2743 days 09 hours 47 minutes 05 seconds

 

[reepicheep]

A hypothetical question. Has anyone seen how a nic type list fits within the APA list? I can tell you this much, if the nic list places a 2005 AW pilot in a relative position to an AA 1980's pilot, good luck with that.
Its already been decided.

The 2005 AWA hire has about 600 active pilots junior to him on the Nic. which is what, 12% up from the bottom? So what hire date at AA gets you 12% up from the bottom - that's around 1000 pilots from the bottom?

I have a feeling it's nowhere near a late 80's hire. More like late 90's; someone on here can probably pin it down for us.

So yeah; you could have a list with a USAir '88 hire, an AA '98 hire, and an AWA '05 hire adjacent to each other.

 

[Scoot 11]

Listen cry baby you just crossed a line with me mister! USAPA was formed to represent pilots and to not deal with the ALPO bs from you DAL types. USAPA was formed to recognize and value the only thing we as pilots can hang our hats on: DATE Of HiRe!!
The rookies out west are the problem and always have been for this reason. Let mevput it to you this way, if DAL merges with ASA are they your equal? Didnt think so.
But for you to imply USAPA pilots are unethical is OUTRAGEOUS!


No word of a suspension, nothing else. Needless to say OYS isn't very happy. ASADFW7 is a loose cannon and needs to get off the throne.

No junior. USAPA was formed to try and overthrow a BINDING ARBITRATION AWARD. But please, for entertainment purposes, keep up the drivel. It's quite hysterical.
All that experience you tout on here, and you simply can't get past 2nd grade spelling. :laugh:

 

[B-atch]

The 2005 AWA hire has about 600 active pilots junior to him on the Nic. which is what, 12% up from the bottom? So what hire date at AA gets you 12% up from the bottom - that's around 1000 pilots from the bottom?

I have a feeling it's nowhere near a late 80's hire. More like late 90's; someone on here can probably pin it down for us.

So yeah; you could have a list with a USAir '88 hire, an AA '98 hire, and an AWA '05 hire adjacent to each other.

Are you forgetting the 3rd listers? The number is more like 1000 behind a 2005 AW hire. This puts him/her a bit higher on the % list..