It's Official: USAirways Wants American

[Turtle21]

My guess is Parker won't wait around for USAPA to drag this out for 5 years with their "Gold Standard" DOH bu!!$hit. More likely a Southwest/AirTran style prenup. A ratioed- by-equipment list using Nic. resulting in 25-30% raises for the east. If the east doesn't like it they'll like the alternative a whole lot less.

Of course Parker could also decide he'd rather throw 1500 west pilots under the bus than 3000 east, and tell APA it's USAPA's DOH with fences list or the deal's off, and invite the west pilots to spend the next decade trying to fight it in court.

Frankly I can see Parker pulling off either one....

There are three ratified lists that are presently enforced. An arbitrator could not possibly expect to work on anything other than ratified lists or he would expect an injunction post haste.

Disputed lists of bygone eras would be of no use.

 

[Turtle21]

Removed what restriction? That USAPA is maintaining its duty of fair representation until it puts out its own list to vote? It sounds like you haven't read any of the court documents (Wake's and the 9th). I didn't read all of the court docs, but I didn't see anything about Wake forcing the NIC... or the 9th and SCOTUS giving USAPA carte blanche without any liability. Actually, I haven't read anywhere that SCOTUS even heard the case...



Huh? What list does USAPA give to the arbitrator? According to you, USAPA can't give a list to the arbitrator other than the individual East and West lists.

If that's what you're saying, then I agree... three lists to work from. And guess what two lists have already been previously integrated into one list by an arbitrator. Guess which resluting list list a certain side can reference from, where months of arbitration has already been accomplished by fellow arbitrator. Guess which list will provide the least amount of legal obstacles for APA and the New Company. Guess which list APA could piggy back from to get the top two or three thousand spots for their wide bodies.

In other words, I'm not sure that the NIC is a done deal, but the cards are certainly stacked against whatever USAPA has in mind.

How is a union going to pass an arbitrator anything other than the ratified lists that it presently enforces? And besides the Nic is ancient history of different lists than exist today and was formulated on factors that are irrelevant now.

 

[sean67]

Judge Wake thought he could force the Nic but the 9th and the SCOTUS removed that restriction. If an arbitrator thinks he will reinstate it now he has more rocks in his head than Wake.

An arbitrator will use the lists the lawful representatives (APA and USAPA) provides him. If anyone (including USAPA) expects to give an arbitrator a list that has never been ratified, much less implimented (Nic or DOH, both of which are wholly foreign to the present employment circumstances of the two pilot groups) they are fools. Not that the profession lacks its share of such.

I agree..What do I know, but I believe it'll be a do over. Nic has never been implemented.

 

[Lampshade]

I agree..What do I know, but I believe it'll be a do over. Nic has never been implemented.

Of course you believe that because you are a east recall, Jr.to all the AWA guys. I know you don't like it and want another bite at the apple (at the wests expense) but it's not going to happen..ever. The reaality fist is about to meet your nose. Enjoy.

 

[captfred]

The reaality fist is about to meet your nose. Enjoy.

Too funny. Hey your avitar picture loks like a fat dude I have seen in the crewroom maining the pickleballer bb.

 

[Turtle21]

I agree..What do I know, but I believe it'll be a do over. Nic has never been implemented.

Hardly a do over. This is an entirely new merger situation. Looking back to a proposal that was never ratified or implemented, and submitting a proposal for arbitration (rather than actual true, ratified, current seniority lists) would be a serious breach of DFR, whether NIC or DOH.

Submitting the NIC or a DOH list would be a false representation of the current seniority status of every pilot as it exists today.

An arbitrator would not be merging lists that are desired or possible sometime in the future, but merging lists as they are currently and legally enforced across the fleet.

 

[Carl S.]

Turtle, the TA is still in effect and goes away with a joint contract with the Nic in place. Guess what, APA is looking at your new contract right now and if this goes forward, the Nic is the list for AWA/AAA and then comes LCC/AA....still with me? Dream all you want about second bites, present positions and three lists, but AWA/AAA is done, just waiting for that joint contract thing to happen, who would of thought it could come this way with no East input!!! Contract law, its a b*tch isn't it....

 

[B-atch]

Turtle, the TA is still in effect and goes away with a joint contract with the Nic in place. Guess what, APA is looking at your new contract right now and if this goes forward, the Nic is the list for AWA/AAA and then comes LCC/AA....still with me? Dream all you want about second bites, present positions and three lists, but AWA/AAA is done, just waiting for that joint contract thing to happen, who would of thought it could come this way with no East input!!! Contract law, its a b*tch isn't it....

prepare to be disappointed.....nic is doa. The sooner you embrace this, the faster we move forward.

 

[dollacrackho]

Lets just kill the whole merger its so much more fun getting paid sh!t wages and listening to 5 year olds argue about who stole their cookie.

 

[waveflyer]

Again, the east is dealing in reality as they wish it were rather than how it is-
That's always a tough lesson-
In any case, this time you won't have the numbers to manipulate the situation- usair combined will largely be along for the ride

What I find funny is the eery similarities between this acquisition and the last one.

USAir felt superior to AWA
AA has always been a superior airline to usair

The question isn't Nic, that's been done- it's if arbitration yields a list that AA isn't happy with, would they pull numbers, and go the route the east went?

How would you east pilots feel about that?