It's Official: USAirways Wants American

[abefly]

I see no legal requirement that east and west be on a single contract prior to a merger. Why? Who would require it?

How will USAPA negotiate a new transition agreement and fairly represent the west? Again, from the company filing in the DJ case


That said, as also noted in US Airways’ prior briefs, the case law makes clear that either party can propose amendments to the binding Transition Agreement pursuant to the terms of that Agreement and Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act – so long as the amendments are consistent with USAPA’s DFR to the West Pilots. The question to be resolved by this Court is whether the amendment to the Transition Agreement that USAPA is constitutionally bound to require is, or is not, consistent with its DFR.


What you just said is self-contradictory. Either east/west is required to be on a single contract prior to the merger or they are not. If they are not, and USAPA breaches their DFR in the West's eye's, that doesn't stop them from doing it, it just opens them up to a future lawsuit. And the outcome of such a future lawsuit is not at all clear, the courts have not ruled that using something other than the Nic is a clear DFR violation. Perhaps Judge Silver will make this clear soon, until then it's not at all obvious what would happen.

Absolutely, they can do it, but they can and will be found guilty of a dfr. They were found guilty in Judge Wakes court room. And it will be easier this time. If it ever comes to that, which I doubt it will hence the DJ case.

Do you really believe judge silver will side with the east? And if so, on what grounds? Serious question.

 

[abefly]

There is nothing that says there has to be a east west contract before a merger. In fact dougie prolly doesn't even want to deal with it. I.E. just another chance for the merge to get hung up. I forsee a contract going out to APA that getting voted in.

I think see APA and USAPA sitting down and saying here's your contract, here is how we envision the SLI being put together, any issues? Good, Send it out for vote. It gets voted on and gets voted in.

Westies scream bloody murder. Continue to file a DFR lawsuit, which starts at Day 1. (new defendant you see) They can then put their donations against 15k pilots dues money....

Wanna bet on that? I know you could use the money. Seeing as you have been the lowest paid pilots for 10 years.

 

[Crzipilot]

AND AND the transition agreement can be changed, AND AND APA when they have single carrier status can use something other than the NIC.....

And And they will then have to answer to your new lawsuit after contract is voted in. As the 9th said, not until a list is VOTED in can you file. (ripeness) And then even with that, it is unknown as to whether anything other than the NIC would consititue a DFR.


See simply from your view point, you think anything other than NIC would consititute a DFR. The problem is....your view point means this much 0.

The courts will look at the whole thing as a common man would and decide if the end result is fair or not. 13k vs 1.3k....hmmmmm

 

[abefly]

And you think the threat of a lawsuit, which will take a number of more years to figure out, is going to stop APA from doing what they want? I waterfront property in Fl for ya...

Is the company going to agree to it? Remember they will be part of the suit as well if they modify the nic. That is why they filed the dj case.

 

[Crzipilot]

Absolutely, they can do it, but they can and will be found guilty of a dfr. They were found guilty in Judge Wakes court room. And it will be easier this time. If it ever comes to that, which I doubt it will hence the DJ case.

Do you really believe judge silver will side with the east? And if so, on what grounds? Serious question.

Judge Wake who was slapped by the 9th. Judge Wake whom framed the case by dissallowing a number of items I believe. And I believe it was a common jury that found the guilt. I'm sure they were tired of sitting there listening to some pansy ass pilots b*tthc over their number and wanted to go drink beer.....

 

[Crzipilot]

Wanna bet on that? I know you could use the money. Seeing as you have been the lowest paid pilots for 10 years.

We are about even then, As prior to that 10 yrs YOU were the lowest paid pilot.....Oh wait. You werent even at AWA then, Which regional did you come from and what was your pay scale in the 80's/90's?

Was mesa around then??? I dunno I was flying Hvy freight around the world at the time making some decent shekkles in a number of projects, so didn't really know what the regional world consisted of.

 

[abefly]

AND AND the transition agreement can be changed, AND AND APA when they have single carrier status can use something other than the NIC.....

And And they will then have to answer to your new lawsuit after contract is voted in. As the 9th said, not until a list is VOTED in can you file. (ripeness) And then even with that, it is unknown as to whether anything other than the NIC would consititue a DFR.


See simply from your view point, you think anything other than NIC would consititute a DFR. The problem is....your view point means this much 0.

The courts will look at the whole thing as a common man would and decide if the end result is fair or not. 13k vs 1.3k....hmmmmm

.
Ok . Want to bet on that? I was at in Judge Wakes courtroom. I have read every USAPA update. I feel educated enough to make a nice friendly bet.

How about a thousand bucks says the list will be the nic? You in?

 

[abefly]

Oh wait, what was I thinking bettng with an Eastie. Even if I win he won't pay up. Because they lack the integrity to follow through on agreements.

Disregard

 

[abefly]

We are about even then, As prior to that 10 yrs YOU were the lowest paid pilot.....Oh wait. You werent even at AWA then, Which regional did you come from and what was your pay scale in the 80's/90's?

Was mesa around then??? I dunno I was flying Hvy freight around the world at the time making some decent shekkles in a number of projects, so didn't really know what the regional world consisted of.

Yup, and I have plenty of time to save for my nice retirement?

How about you?

 

[ultrarunner]

Nic won't get overturned. If it were, then there would be no use any longer for federal arbitrators and no need for a law allowing for binding-arbitration in the collective-bargaining process.

The big-picture of this lawsuit is not who gets what number, although that is the end result. The big-picture is about a federally accepted process, and IMHO, a judge is NOT going to rule against that process and set the precedent that no longer recognizes an agreed-to arbitration award. Just not going to happen.

 

[Crzipilot]

But this process wasn't a federally mandated arbitration was it? Wasn't an internal ALPA arbitration? That is binding on two ALPA parties?

Yup, got plenty of time to save too my friend over 25 years here....

 

[Crzipilot]

I have a feeling I'm talking with a bunch of '02-05 hires. They know if they click their heels enough, the NIC will be used.

If the NIC is used, these guys will gain an unimaginable windfall. almost equal to the guy that who's birthday was just after they changed the rule to 65.......

 

[abefly]

I have a feeling I'm talking with a bunch of '02-05 hires. They know if they click their heels enough, the NIC will be used.

If the NIC is used, these guys will gain an unimaginable windfall. almost equal to the guy that who's birthday was just after they changed the rule to 65.......

over 30 years here. You must be a '99 hire who was on the street when the merger happened.

And a bunch of 02-05 hires who will be senior to you. That is the problem isn't it?

 

[ultrarunner]

But this process wasn't a federally mandated arbitration was it?...

No, it was not, it was a mutually agreed upon process and arbitrator....

But the CBA's still under the jurisdiction of the RLA.

 

[waveflyer]

We are about even then, As prior to that 10 yrs YOU were the lowest paid pilot.....Oh wait. You werent even at AWA then, Which regional did you come from and what was your pay scale in the 80's/90's?

Was mesa around then??? I dunno I was flying Hvy freight around the world at the time making some decent shekkles in a number of projects, so didn't really know what the regional world consisted of.

I'm not involved, but as a former commuter and regional pilot, I would have no problem telling you to ******************** off. We are airline pilots. And the best airline pilots come from the regionals and commuters as they have been doing the job from the beginning.
As for $$, Pilots comparing sheckles is ridiculous -the highest paid among us do ok- but it's nothing to brag about in the scheme of things and you'd still need a ton of capital to get any real venture off the ground-
"I'm the shiniest penny!!"
"no! I am!"

 

[Guppiedriver]

But this process wasn't a federally mandated arbitration was it? Wasn't an internal ALPA arbitration? That is binding on two ALPA parties?

Yup, got plenty of time to save too my friend over 25 years here....

So, all you have to do is change the name of the union and you will not be held responsible for your previous agreements?

 

[ackattacker]

Well, we can see where this thread is going.

 

[abefly]

Well, we can see where this thread is going.

sorry ackattacker, I was trying to have an educated discussion with you. Until CRZ got involved.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well ABE, you were the one that wanted to start swapping W2's.....

As to simply changing names to get out of obligations. Well that's where the loop hole is. The obligation and the process was an ALPA process. Two ALPA mec's agreed to an ALPA process. Before that process was completed, which includes, as per the TA, a new combined CBA, solidifying that SLI arbitration known as the NIC. Something changed. A union was voted out and another one was voted in. This union had it's own processes so it was back to square one.

Bottom line, the ALPA process was never completed. So how does an ALPA process get stuck to a new entity? You just agreed that the arbitration was an ALPA process.

 

[Crzipilot]

And wave, wasn't dumping on commuter pilots. Was dumping simply on ABE as he wanted to bring w2's in the equation...